Palmer Orbit 11 Monitor Review

[Flaesh]

mixing engineers work with) may have more than 20db crest factor

And these sweet mixing engineers ruin compress recordings so that the listeners' poor speakers don't get ruined?. Ugh.

 

[dfuller]

And these sweet mixing engineers ruin compress recordings so that the listeners' poor speakers don't get ruined?. Ugh.

The audiophile aversion to the use of compression continues to astound. All your favorite records (yes, even the classical ones) use some kind of dynamic range control.

 

[montyliam]

Recieved mine today. I have been having trouble integrating a single subwoofer (localisation problems even with agressive XO filtering) with my existing pair of Genelec 8350's (for sale here!). My original plan was to build dual subs as stands underneath my Genelec's. I decided to give these a shot while I was finalising the subwoofer details, but now I have changed my mind again. I will leave subjective comments until later but a few standouts for me so far:

1. Great imaging and soundstage width.
2. Impressive bass for the size. My room has two modes 54hz and 28hz. 54hz is around 10db naturally higher than the rest of the response, 28hz is around 5db higher. Two cutting filters here, and one at 200hz means I have now gained quite a lot of headroom to work with. In the current setup, there is more bass on offer at higher levels than I plan to listen at.
3. The HF isn't quite as clear as the Genelec's.

Below I have attached some REW measurments. The first is the raw response of the Palmers, the second is the Palmers with 4 PEQ filters. The third is the Genelec 8350 + single sub vs the Palmer. You can see the Palmer is slightly smoother around 100-200hz, and 1-2khz where the Genelec's exhibit some dips.

If I wasn't restricted by volume levels (apartment living) I would probably go Genelec + dual subs, but for now for this setup, I'm impressed.

EDIT: I will also add the unboxing experience was nice. The speakers are put into bags with handles either side for easy removal from the boxes. The OLED display ontop is also very nice.

 

[Oboreal]

Dfuller : No, it isn't. We use dB(C) or even unweighted for that.

To my knowledge, both AES and EBU recommandations uses dBA. dBC is usefull to complement dbA above 85 dB for live max volume limitations since they have been huge excess in the bass range with dbA only and the law has been forced to adapt in 2017 in France for example. But if you have sources that show the opposite, i will be happy to correct my point. (i've done some resarch to recall my previous readings but can't find any free doc).

The audiophile aversion to the use of compression continues to astound. All your favorite records (yes, even the classical ones) use some kind of dynamic range control.

So true. Trust me, you don't want to listen to an acoustic drummer 1 meter away full dynamic range for a full live performance.

 

[tonyrob]

Recieved mine today. I have been having trouble integrating a single subwoofer (localisation problems even with agressive XO filtering) with my existing pair of Genelec 8350's (for sale here!). My original plan was to build dual subs as stands underneath my Genelec's. I decided to give these a shot while I was finalising the subwoofer details, but now I have changed my mind again. I will leave subjective comments until later but a few standouts for me so far:

1. Great imaging and soundstage width.
2. Impressive bass for the size. My room has two modes 54hz and 28hz. 54hz is around 10db naturally higher than the rest of the response, 28hz is around 5db higher. Two cutting filters here, and one at 200hz means I have now gained quite a lot of headroom to work with. In the current setup, there is more bass on offer at higher levels than I plan to listen at.
3. The HF isn't quite as clear as the Genelec's.

Below I have attached some REW measurments. The first is the raw response of the Palmers, the second is the Palmers with 4 PEQ filters. The third is the Genelec 8350 + single sub vs the Palmer. You can see the Palmer is slightly smoother around 100-200hz, and 1-2khz where the Genelec's exhibit some dips.

If I wasn't restricted by volume levels (apartment living) I would probably go Genelec + dual subs, but for now for this setup, I'm impressedth

Thank you for the update! Actually, more people found Orbit's HF is not as clear as Genelecs., but, the bass is what I am looking for. Great work!

 

[vornez]

It just shows that physics still rules. With DSP you can get deeper bass but at the loss of clean SPL.

Also seen on the cumulative spectral decay graphs. Lately I've come to be extremely skeptical about speakers claiming to extend well down in the lower frequencies that use a medium sized woofer. Usually this is accomplished by the use of a port but at the price of hideous resonances. IMHO this speaker, despite it not having a port, still exhibits subpar time domain characteristics.

 

[montyliam]

Thank you for the update! Actually, more people found Orbit's HF is not as clear as Genelecs., but, the bass is what I am looking for. Great work!

From my very subjective viewpoint, they don't cut quite as sharply as the Genelec's. You can see from my REW graphs the Palmer's have a slow roll off above 10khz, where the Genelec's extend flat-out.

 

[tonyrob]

From my very subjective viewpoint, they don't cut quite as sharply as the Genelec's. You can see from my REW graphs the Palmer's have a slow roll off above 10khz, where the Genelec's extend flat-out.

what is your setup? room, distance, toe in/out?

 

[montyliam]

what is your setup? room, distance, toe in/out?

3.2x6m room, located around 50cm from the rear of one of the long walls. REW room-sim tracks pretty much exactly the measured in-room response. I have a thick 10cm absorber behind me. I sit around 2.4m from the speaker fronts. Toe'd in around 20 deg to face the listener.

An aspect worth mentioning is the rear radiation is much less than on other speakers I have used!

 

[tonyrob]

3.2x6m room, located around 50cm from the rear of one of the long walls. REW room-sim tracks pretty much exactly the measured in-room response. I have a thick 10cm absorber behind me. I sit around 2.4m from the speaker fronts. Toe'd in around 20 deg to face the listener.

An aspect worth mentioning is the rear radiation is much less than on other speakers I have used!

very similar to my room in an apartment. how do you compare Orbit with 8350+sub, the accuracy, imaging and soundstage.

 

[Flaesh]

The audiophile aversion to the use of compression continues to astound. All your favorite records (yes, even the classical ones) use some kind of dynamic range control.

I don't deserve the lofty title of audiophile!)) I listen to far more black and doom than classical music. Let some dynamic control exists, but compression is usually overused, IMHO.
Turn your amp\speakers at full volume and listen to Tom Danley's recordings)).

 

[montyliam]

very similar to my room in an apartment. how do you compare Orbit with 8350+sub, the accuracy, imaging and soundstage.

Too early to say really. I was however not happy with a single subwoofer no matter the position or XO filter used. It always had a detectable location which I hated. The bass from the Palmers is much better in this regard.

 

[illusonic]

I couldn’t agree more. I was planning on measuring my Orbits and post my experience with EQ and Dirac ART in my 4.4 system but I discovered that my current front speaker position is in a null and I need to figure the best position. Hopefully in the next few weeks.

Would this be 4 Orbits + 4 subwoofers?

Just realized that for 5800€ one can get 5 Orbits + Denon AVC-X3800H + Dirac ART bundle.
Probably no sub needed with 10 x 8" woofers. And ART should tame room modes well with 5 fullrange speakers.

5800€ happens to be the price for a pair of ASCILAB C8C from Audiophonics.

 

[naagratrax]

Recieved mine today. I have been having trouble integrating a single subwoofer (localisation problems even with agressive XO filtering) with my existing pair of Genelec 8350's (for sale here!). My original plan was to build dual subs as stands underneath my Genelec's. I decided to give these a shot while I was finalising the subwoofer details, but now I have changed my mind again. I will leave subjective comments until later but a few standouts for me so far:

1. Great imaging and soundstage width.
2. Impressive bass for the size. My room has two modes 54hz and 28hz. 54hz is around 10db naturally higher than the rest of the response, 28hz is around 5db higher. Two cutting filters here, and one at 200hz means I have now gained quite a lot of headroom to work with. In the current setup, there is more bass on offer at higher levels than I plan to listen at.
3. The HF isn't quite as clear as the Genelec's.

Below I have attached some REW measurments. The first is the raw response of the Palmers, the second is the Palmers with 4 PEQ filters. The third is the Genelec 8350 + single sub vs the Palmer. You can see the Palmer is slightly smoother around 100-200hz, and 1-2khz where the Genelec's exhibit some dips.

If I wasn't restricted by volume levels (apartment living) I would probably go Genelec + dual subs, but for now for this setup, I'm impressed.

EDIT: I will also add the unboxing experience was nice. The speakers are put into bags with handles either side for easy removal from the boxes. The OLED display ontop is also very nice.

Do you thinks you have enough headroom with the 400watts per speakers in appartment ?

I have the same type of room with Hypex Amp and Polk R700, really likes the towers, don't know if the upgrade worth the shoot.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

Would this be 4 Orbits + 4 subwoofers?

Just realized that for 5800€ one can get 5 Orbits + Denon AVC-X3800H + Dirac ART bundle.
Probably no sub needed with 10 x 8" woofers. And ART should tame room modes well with 5 fullrange speakers.

5800€ happens to be the price for a pair of ASCILAB C8C from Audiophonics.

2 Orbits for the Fronts, 2 Kef Q150s for the surrounds, 2 SVS SB1000 (Non Pro) and 2 SVS 3000 Micros. This is in a 3m by 2.1m room.

 

[Flaesh]

I have

I have a jacket of a similar color!)) But the room is a little bigger.

400watts per speakers in appartment ?

I have about 100 watts for each subwoofer, after which a natural limitation appears (link in the signature), less for the midbass, much less for the tweeters. In appartment.

 

[illusonic]

2 Orbits for the Fronts, 2 Kef Q150s for the surrounds, 2 SVS SB1000 (Non Pro) and 2 SVS 3000 Micros. This is in a 3m by 2.1m room.

Should give some solid bass in that small room.

SVS 3000 Micro's woofers (left) look quite similar to the Orbits' woofers and the Tymphany woofers (right) that I brought up earlier in this thread.

Tymphany SBS-200F35AL01-04 8

- 200 mm Subwoofer, 4 Ohm - stabile Aluminiummembran - inverse Sicke - sehr langhubig und belastbar

quint-store.com

Could it be that the subs and the Orbits share the same speaker?

Also intresting that the SVS Micro sub is lighter than the Orbits.
Price is higher but hopefully also output. Housing seems a bit bigger and the amp has more power.
Although there is only 6dB difference between 200 and 800Wrms.

 

[Sokel]

To my knowledge, both AES and EBU recommandations uses dBA. dBC is usefull to complement dbA above 85 dB for live max volume limitations since they have been huge excess in the bass range with dbA only and the law has been forced to adapt in 2017 in France for example. But if you have sources that show the opposite, i will be happy to correct my point. (i've done some resarch to recall my previous readings but can't find any free doc).


So true. Trust me, you don't want to listen to an acoustic drummer 1 meter away full dynamic range for a full live performance.

Right.
So, actual playback at 2.8 meters (setup doesn't matter but no subs around here)) of Amir's bass track reference from the review, with (A) and (C) weighting (peaks are always, always (Z) .

Purple is average, Yellow is max and Peak is Red:

(A) weighted

(C) weighted

(needless to say that levels are identical down to the last mV)

There are nice works around with minimal compression, etc (not the above) , let me know if you want glorious, real life examples of this.

 

[Flaesh]

Amir's bass track reference from the review

What track is this?

 

[CB89]

Could it be that the subs and the Orbits share the same speaker?

I believe a Palmer employee already commented on this here in the ASR, stating that the driver is an in-house development.