Paul7777x
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You neglected to mention the ‘brand recognition’ orange crayon around the driver.
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Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)
- Thread starter kharan
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You neglected to mention the ‘brand recognition’ orange crayon around the driver.
Paul7777x
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Any evidence for the accusation?
Audionaut
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I couldn't decide whether to put it under "Pros" or "Cons."
Paul7777x
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That is a very rude thing to say. You have disparaged a competent reviewer by implying they write biased reviews to favor other companies—even suggesting they have been paid off.
Please mind your manners and show some respect.
Because there are more audio community outside ASR. Do more research or less internet for god's sake.
Breeze98
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Respect to @Nuyes for the effort in obtaining a few monitors to test. IMO, it shows the value of measuring a few examples of the same item rather than just one, and by doing so in this case suggesting issues with quality control. Though it was only measuring self-noise here.
It could just as easily apply to other gear, be it speakers or electronics, where one example measured well and received a positive review but QC was in fact lacking during production.
Shame multi-testing isn't practical to do more commonly, and not just with audio gear for that matter -)
It could just as easily apply to other gear, be it speakers or electronics, where one example measured well and received a positive review but QC was in fact lacking during production.
Shame multi-testing isn't practical to do more commonly, and not just with audio gear for that matter -)
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RobL
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Baseless ad hominem attacks should be removed by the admins and trigger the ban hammer.
Audionaut
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Joachim Kiesler at ME-Geithain was the first to develop the Cardiod bass speaker.
ME Geithain RL901K
If you don't mind a little bit of healthy scepticism… Geithain claims that their speakers are cardioid down to 32 Hz. To me, that’s still very much unproven. First, because I haven’t been able to find a single independent measurement confirming it. Second, because the design is essentially a very conventional coaxial, which generally allows decent directivity control down to around 200 Hz, but rarely below that.
From what I know about cardioid designs in the low frequencies, you need to create phase opposition either with woofers firing in the opposite direction of the front-facing drivers, or with a side slot that introduces the required phase shift. Even then, in real‑world conditions, you rarely get a true cardioid effect below 100 or even 200 Hz, at least not in the sense you get with subwoofer arrays in live sound, where driver spacing is much larger.
Typically, what you get instead is an improvement in directivity in the low midrange, which helps with reflections from tables/consoles and with SBIR, but rarely with room modes.
If we have no evidence that a phenomenon is real, and no explanation for how it could occur, a skeptical stance should lead us to assume the claim is false until proven otherwise.
From what I know about cardioid designs in the low frequencies, you need to create phase opposition either with woofers firing in the opposite direction of the front-facing drivers, or with a side slot that introduces the required phase shift. Even then, in real‑world conditions, you rarely get a true cardioid effect below 100 or even 200 Hz, at least not in the sense you get with subwoofer arrays in live sound, where driver spacing is much larger.
Typically, what you get instead is an improvement in directivity in the low midrange, which helps with reflections from tables/consoles and with SBIR, but rarely with room modes.
If we have no evidence that a phenomenon is real, and no explanation for how it could occur, a skeptical stance should lead us to assume the claim is false until proven otherwise.
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First, there is no confirmed QC issue here. Difference is likely due to component differences. I doubt any company performs end of line self noise test.
As to your easy suggestion, should I test two more Asci C8C instead of the Palmer?
They have measurements on their website, unless you want to say that they are wrong or lying you could just look at those:
At 32-125Hz there is significant attenuation at the back of the speaker, whereas a traditional speaker is completely omnidirectional at these frequencies.
The cardioid ports are on the back and not the sides of Geithain speakers. The concept is very different from the Orbit 11, the cardioid ports only interact with the woofer, the tweeter has its own housing (it's plenty directional anyway) and the midrange is open baffle with damping material around it.
They have published some articles on their website.
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Ratterbass
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There are a few true bass cardioid speakers around, though I only know of line arrays that qualify for this. d&B have been prominent in this regard, though I'm not a fan of their cardioid lineup. Terrible phase response and they only go down as low as roughly 70Hz. Same for adamson.
I got to see and hear this new line array at ISE this year and the performance was very impressive. Controlled directivity down to 30-something Hz, cancellation at back and sides. They had a small groundstack of these on a rotating table while playing some bass heavy tracks so you could experience the drop in low end spl. Impressive stuff. Absolutely not practical for domestic use though unless your listening space is the size of a 500cap venue.
I am not aware of small scale speakers that are capable of full band cardioid performance.
b73i57dc3f
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Sound & Recording (Anselm Goertz) has measured the 944K1:
ME Geithain RL 944K1: Kompakter 3-Wege-Nahfeldmonitor mit koaxialem Aufbau im Test
Im kommenden Jahr wird man bei ME Geithain (Musikelectronic Geithain) das 60-jährige Firmenjubiläum feiern. Viele Firmen mit einer so langen Tradition gibt es in der Audio Branche nicht. Bedenkt man dann noch die äußerst wechselhafte Geschichte des Unternehmens aus dem kleinen Städtchen...
web.archive.org
Audionaut
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Breeze98
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I wasn't implying you should, as that wouldn't be practical for one person to do on a regular basis, and i didn't intend it to come across like that. It was more about how it would be nice to test a few different examples of the same speaker in an ideal world
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There is no doubt that Geithain has cardioid bass.
But the passive cardioid midrange of the Palmer seems inspired by side slots in D&D 8C.
And the cardiod hype was started by the active implementation in Kii Three.
Palmer did however create an unique (to my knowledge) passive cardioid implementation including top/bottom slots for vertical directivity control.
Combined with the coax they have better vertical polars than D&D or Kii speakers with less narrowing at mid/high crossover.
Downside of the coax is limited directivity control towards low frequencies due to the bass speakers taking over at 250Hz.
To avoid notches in the in-room frequency response by rear-wall reflection, the speakers will probably require very close positioning to the wall.
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