Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[illusonic]

You don't expect noise from the speaker to drop 12dB for 4x distance?
Regarding the noise spectrum discrete peaks are much more annoying than wideband noise.
So these may still be audible especially due to their higher level.
But that's not an issue I found with my set of speakers.

 

[amirm]

So these may still be audible especially due to their higher level.

Haven't seen a single report of anyone saying they are hearing single tones. On this or any other active design. The noise they hear be definition is random and wideband

 

[Nuyes]

This is kind of important.

Analog vs digital input selection because it will likely be different for different users and involve different internal paths in the speaker.

Input connector state because (if analog input selected) noise can vary based on input noise OR on source impedance. Worst case would be open input, as some circuits (particularly with bipolar input IC devices) noise could be expected to vary all over the place in not a realistic test condition.

For digital input selected probably input connector state is less important. Though a clever speaker design could disable/mute the amplifier when a digital input stream isn't detected (some DACs do that). Probably a fair test to get around that would be to test driving digital input with an LSB level signal applied. (Given the Orbit's noise in the report, that's not likely the case with it, though!).

The measurements were performed with no input connected, and all tests were conducted in analog mode.
Digital input measurements were covered in the latter part of my original review video, but they were not part of this comparison.

 

[Bwaslo]

The measurements were performed with no input connected, and all tests were conducted in analog mode.
Digital input measurements were covered in the latter part of my original review video, but they were not part of this comparison.

That might be the source of some of the variation. Open analog input is worst case for noise and that noise will be a function of input current noise of the input circuit. (Current noise will have no effect with shorted or very low source impedance).

 

[kemmler3D]

the literal translation is quite Vulgar, isn't it....

Google translates this as "splitting hairs" which gives about 99% of the meaning and 2% of the flavor...

 

[Andreas007]

I really encourage to do the sudden switch-off test when judging speaker hiss.
This will include your setup, room and listening position. Do it in the evening when background noise is low. Stay in the room for quite some time without playing music. Then switch-off (or let switch-off) all speakers simultaneously. If the room goes „more silent“ or „more calm“ (sometimes it’s only like a feeling that something is different) you know you have a problem with speaker hiss (to which you may have got used to).
Even if you think this will not affect your listening experience, who wants costant, avoidable „noise fog“ in the room?

 

[Karmacoma]

the literal translation is quite Vulgar, isn't it....

Google translates this as "splitting hairs" which gives about 99% of the meaning and 2% of the flavor...

Excuse my french...

 

[illusonic]

Even if you think this will not affect your listening experience, who wants costant, avoidable „noise fog“ in the room?

If you visit an unechoic chamber you will find that you DO want some noise around.

 

[TimVG]

In any case, the Orbit 11 will go down as one of the most scrutinized models in ASR history.
While I'm a strong supporter of transparency, and hope to see these slight issues addressed in the future, I do get the impression that sometimes people are simply looking for a 'gotcha'.

 

[Ogremic]

It's the fact that for now it's not available, so many of us are just trying to understand things that are very simple when you have the device in your hands. Turn on, put them in position, listen to music, eq them by your needs and forget about all the talk here. Also, yes, some are just looking for excuses.

I remember when I got my dynaudios and hedds, reading forumtalk about hiss and when I got them, yeah, you can hear hiss from 30cm, but if you are at 1m from them, no problem. Yes, I checked my hearing, I still can hear up to 16.5kHz

 

[Audionaut]

In any case, the Orbit 11 will go down as one of the most scrutinized models in ASR history.
While I'm a strong supporter of transparency, and hope to see these slight issues addressed in the future, I do get the impression that sometimes people are simply looking for a 'gotcha'.

Yes, there’s some repetition in this thread, and I get the feeling no new points will be added.

What are the pros?
You don’t need any power amplifiers,
you have a point source,
cardioid characteristics,
you get bass reproduction from this tiny enclosure that rivals that of large floor-standing speakers
Three-way active system
DOS Bass
Large diaphragm area in a relatively small enclosure
A control panel that can be operated from the front and—perhaps the biggest highlight for me—an all-aluminum enclosure.
According to the measurements available so far from Nuyes and Stoneeh, the manufacturer’s ambitious claims largely match reality
All for around 800 euros

The downsides >
Apparently, quality control could be improved
Some users (not all) notice the speaker’s inherent noise
Some users need a different dispersion pattern
Anything else?

If I were to recommend speakers to someone right now for around 800 euros each, the Palmers would definitely be one of the possible options.
Amir’s review probably won’t change that, unless he finds a previously unknown flaw, which I don’t expect.

 

[Karmacoma]

I do get the impression that sometimes people are simply looking for a 'gotcha'.

It's not just an impression, the Genelecs, Neumanns and a few others are the references, so comparatively we point out the few details that don't make em state of the art, and also low bass is usually a lot more expensive so yeah let's call it a ''what's the trick'' bias. A couple of years back we probably would've been less picky. That said, that's a healthy consumer kneejerk.

 

[Mart68]

In any case, the Orbit 11 will go down as one of the most scrutinized models in ASR history.
While I'm a strong supporter of transparency, and hope to see these slight issues addressed in the future, I do get the impression that sometimes people are simply looking for a 'gotcha'.

'All progress depends on the unreasonable man'

 

[illusonic]

Based on Armi's reviews I have bought a few more in-ears than I actually need.
These were all low-cost so simply worth it to me for the fun of testing.

But now I bought a pair of speakers that I don't need purely based on curiosity fueled by excellent measurements.
So I understand the need to find some aspects that can hold one back from unneccesary purchases.

Anyways, my son will appreciate the speakers which to me set the new bar in cost/performance ratio for their product category.
So I am happy with my purchase.

If Palmer keeps the current price, the market will hopefully follow which would be good for all of us.
Companies like Kii Audio and Dutch&Dutch paved the way technologically and raised awareness for cardiod designs.
Now Palmer brings the price down to where it should be while introducing some very reasonable compromises.

 

[Sokel]

Now Palmer brings the price down to where it should be while introducing some very reasonable compromises.

It depends on the compromises and about what's possible.

For example, they claim 1kW of (burst) power packed in there.
(can't see the thermals to justify it but that's another story, they may have fans I can't see)

Even for the sole price of a whole Orbit, such an amp pack, with some low noise does not exist other than the false adds of ali and such.
And that, only for the amps.

The way I see it, Orbit is not made so make profit, it's probably made to give Palmer some fame, which is perfectly ok in my book.
And only time will show which corners have been cut.

So...

 

[Andreas007]

If you visit an unechoic chamber you will find that you DO want some noise around.

True, but why accept additional noise when you could avoid it?

 

[Ogremic]

True, but why accept additional noise when you could avoid it?

Because price?

 

[CB89]

True, but why accept additional noise when you could avoid it?

If you want 3-way/cardioid/coaxial speakers at a relatively low price, then it's not so easy to avoid it.

The discussion is somewhat circular. If noise of any kind is unacceptable, then passive loudspeakers are the better choice. If noise is tolerable at a distance of approximately 5 cm, then one would have to opt for Neumann/Genelec/Geithain and be prepared to pay the price.

How to deal with other devices that generate background noise in everyday life? Computers/laptops/refrigerators/washing machines/dryers, etc.

 

[Mort]

In any case, the Orbit 11 will go down as one of the most scrutinized models in ASR history.
While I'm a strong supporter of transparency, and hope to see these slight issues addressed in the future, I do get the impression that sometimes people are simply looking for a 'gotcha'.

I don't think that's unreasonable when a (seemingly) near perfect device is sold at a market breaking price. Why wouldn't we look for the gotcha? That's how we survive consumer capitalism.

 

[JoeDiMEG]

Open analog input is worst case for noise (...)

Exactly. When connected with a "Funk" preamp ("MTX-Monitor") the ORBITS 11 behaved excellent.

The likable Korean Insta YT ... audio influencer chose open anolog, that is not ideal.
But the competitors are surely not unhappy about it.

Suddenly he had 3 ORBITS 11 more to measure. He accepts Kakao Pay, buy me a coffee….

KR