Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[Mort]

I'll give an AI overview of that video a go

Ideally the AI summary is a video.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

Ideally the AI summary is a video.

Lol, I have a lot of experience at writing AI processes and agents (it's my day job) but an animated video.....it's possible and maybe some other time, I am aiming for a detailed markdown file.

 

[Audionaut]

I'll give an AI overview of that video a go

How does your AI summary differ from the one here, and what will be the added value?

Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

E English: You have been a (very) active ASR member for almost six years. It is a categorical indictment of your intellect and/or character that you still cannot interpret the measurements enough to answer these very basic questions. I asked about his subjective impressions. It's ironic that...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[90sNintendoKid]

I am going to transcribe the video and translate to English and also send frames to a vision LLM to identify relevant graphs that relate to analysis in the transcript and then write a markdown summary with graphs and cited translated analysis. It won't be one llm call and I suspect more detailed.

 

[Audionaut]

As written, the summary in post 1789 is already based on the transcript of the video, and Nuyes explains the graphics shown in great detail.
However, I also assume that Nuyes will post a separate thread with his results here on ASR, as he announced.
With the description of the video, I just wanted to provide the description of a YouTube video requested by @RickS so that the video would not be deleted again.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

As written, the summary in post 1789 is already based on the transcript of the video, and Nuyes explains the graphics shown in great detail.
However, I also assume that Nuyes will post a separate thread with his results here on ASR, as he announced.
With the description of the video, I just wanted to provide the description of a YouTube video requested by @RickS so that the video would not be deleted again.

I'm doing this more as an AI intellectual exercise, it's currently running and looks like it will be produce good results.

 

[Boboss]

I’ve owned the Palmer ORBIT 11 for about a week now.

In my case, the background noise only appeared when using the analog input. What’s interesting is that I had previously used the same analog output from my PC with a pair of Focal studio monitors, and the noise was much less noticeable there. So my impression is that the ORBIT 11 are either more sensitive to the quality of the analog source, or simply make the noise coming from the PC’s analog output much more audible.

I recently received a small USB-to-AES converter I bought on AliExpress for around €25, and once I switched to the AES input, the background noise completely disappeared in my setup. I also feel the sound is a bit cleaner overall, with slightly more perceived detail, although that part is obviously subjective.

So if anyone is hearing background noise with the ORBIT 11, I think it’s definitely worth trying the AES3 input before concluding that the speakers themselves are the problem.

In my case, the difference between analog and AES was very clear.

 

[Salt]

I’ve owned the Palmer ORBIT 11 for about a week now.

In my case, the background noise only appeared when using the analog input. What’s interesting is that I had previously used the same analog output from my PC with a pair of Focal studio monitors, and the noise was much less noticeable there. So my impression is that the ORBIT 11 are either more sensitive to the quality of the analog source, or simply make the noise coming from the PC’s analog output much more audible.

I recently received a small USB-to-AES converter I bought on AliExpress for around €25, and once I switched to the AES input, the background noise completely disappeared in my setup. I also feel the sound is a bit cleaner overall, with slightly more perceived detail, although that part is obviously subjective.

So if anyone is hearing background noise with the ORBIT 11, I think it’s definitely worth trying the AES3 input before concluding that the speakers themselves are the problem.

In my case, the difference between analog and AES was very clear.

Did you set PAD to -20dB on the analogue input?

 

[90sNintendoKid]

I’ve owned the Palmer ORBIT 11 for about a week now.

In my case, the background noise only appeared when using the analog input. What’s interesting is that I had previously used the same analog output from my PC with a pair of Focal studio monitors, and the noise was much less noticeable there. So my impression is that the ORBIT 11 are either more sensitive to the quality of the analog source, or simply make the noise coming from the PC’s analog output much more audible.

I recently received a small USB-to-AES converter I bought on AliExpress for around €25, and once I switched to the AES input, the background noise completely disappeared in my setup. I also feel the sound is a bit cleaner overall, with slightly more perceived detail, although that part is obviously subjective.

So if anyone is hearing background noise with the ORBIT 11, I think it’s definitely worth trying the AES3 input before concluding that the speakers themselves are the problem.

In my case, the difference between analog and AES was very clear.

Thanks for this, I don't want to but I'll use Minidsp PocketADCs and AES converters if I have to........

 

[Boboss]

Did you set PAD to -20dB on the analogue input?

Yes, setting the attenuation to -20 dB does reduce background noise, but it doesn't eliminate it completely. In my case, with the speakers 1 meter from my ears, the background noise remained perceptible on the analog input even with the -20 dB setting. Only using the AES input allowed me to resolve this issue.

 

[Bwaslo]

Good to hear (or not .. no pun intended). In my case, my hearing drops off at hf (so I boost it in eq) so hiss likely doesn't matter anyway.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Yes, setting the attenuation to -20 dB does reduce background noise, but it doesn't eliminate it completely. In my case, with the speakers 1 meter from my ears, the background noise remained perceptible on the analog input even with the -20 dB setting. Only using the AES input allowed me to resolve this issue.

Really good news for me because I own an Octo Dac 8 Pro which outputs AES for the L R channels and is controllable by the master volume control. As long as I can use the first two channels as AES output and also output channels 3-8 through my analog XLR simultaneously, I should be good.

If this does hold true, it seems to indicate the problem with the Parmer lies its A to D converter more than anything else.

 

[Paul7777x]

In this Video @Nuyes analyzes the Palmer Orbit 11 active studio monitor, a speaker that has recently attracted a lot of attention in audio communities and is often described as a potential “game changer.”

Nuyes explains that this reputation mainly comes from the combination of several advanced design concepts at a very low price (under $800 per unit).

Design Concept

The Orbit 11 combines three technologies that normally appear only in much more expensive speakers:

• 3-way coaxial design – the midrange and tweeter share the same acoustic axis to create a point-source behavior and precise imaging.
• Cardioid radiation pattern – the speaker reduces sound radiation to the sides and rear to minimize room reflections.
• Dual Opposed Subwoofer (DOS) – two woofers are mounted in opposite directions to cancel cabinet vibrations.

Comparable speakers using similar concepts include models from Genelec, Dutch & Dutch, Kii, and Barefoot, but those are usually far more expensive.

Because of this unusual feature set combined with a low price, the speaker has been widely discussed as a possible “bang-for-the-buck revolution.”

Measurement Results

Nuyes performs extensive measurements.

Frequency response

• The on-axis response is very flat and well balanced.
• Bass extension reaches roughly 26 Hz, which is remarkable for a speaker of this size.

Directivity

Measurements such as spinorama, contour plots, beamwidth, and polar plots show:

• very consistent directivity
• stable radiation from about 400 Hz up to the highest frequencies
• effective cardioid behavior that reduces rear radiation.

Both horizontal and vertical dispersion are smooth, which is one of the typical advantages of coaxial designs.

Distortion

• From about 70 Hz upward, distortion remains very low.
• Below that frequency distortion rises significantly.

This is explained by the design:

• two 8-inch woofers are placed in a very small enclosure
• strong DSP bass boosting is used to achieve the unusually deep bass extension.

Despite this demanding setup, the speaker still shows impressive mechanical stability and remains relatively clean even at high levels.

Multitone distortion and compression measurements also indicate very solid performance, with distortion staying low even at high output levels around 96 dB.

The Fatal Drawback

Despite the excellent acoustic measurements, the reviewer identifies one major problem that does not appear in the performance graphs: self-noise (hiss).

When the speaker is turned on, the internal electronics generate audible background noise.

Measurements made with a microphone 10 cm from the speaker show that the Orbit 11 produces significantly more noise than several well-known monitors, including:

• Neumann KH120A
• Genelec 8030C
• Kali Audio LP6
• even a budget Edifier MR4

Lowering the output level reduces the hiss slightly, but it remains noticeably higher than competing products.

Conclusion

Nuyes concludes that the Palmer Orbit 11 is an extremely impressive and ambitious design:

• excellent frequency response
• very well controlled directivity
• strong output capability
• advanced engineering at a remarkably low price.

However, the high self-noise is considered a fatal flaw, especially for nearfield studio use.

Since one advantage of coaxial monitors is the ability to listen at very short distances, audible hiss undermines that benefit.

Therefore:

• At longer listening distances (around 2.5–5 m) in normal living environments, the Orbit 11 could offer exceptional value for money.
• For professional nearfield monitoring, the reviewer suggests waiting for a future revision with a lower noise floor.

yes that noise kills the idea for me.

Even if I could destroy the crayon orange bit successfully.

Perhaps the mark 2 version...

 

[Salt]

Even if there will be a Mark II, or new batch of Mark I, you will have to pay the price for it ...
(just saying ... and listening pleased ...)

 

[Karmacoma]

They undeniably seem to be superb speakers. And in an appealing price range for many hi-fi enthusiasts.

enculer des mouches

We have the same saying, proverb in Swedish.

“Knulla flugor” i looked it up
Long live the european civilisation!

 

[90sNintendoKid]

I have created an AI overview of @Nuyes's Orbit video here with the code: https://github.com/mmadahar/orbit-review-ai-overview/tree/master

The markdown file is here (AI generated) : https://github.com/mmadahar/orbit-review-ai-overview/blob/master/output/output.md

 

[dickiefunk]

Parts of my work are audio editing and beta testing sample libraries/virtual instruments and fx processors. Having low self noise in monitors is very important to me as I am often listening for hiss in very quiet tails of samples and editing audio.
I am using a pair of KH120’s and a MOTU 828es audio interface and the KH120’s have low self noise but I can still hear a faint hiss sat roughly 1.2m away from them with the output switch on the 100dB setting. If the Orbit 11’s have higher self noise than the KH120’s this is sadly a deal breaker for me. I really hope Palmer can improve this with either a firmware update or an update at some point.

 

[dfuller]

Parts of my work are audio editing and beta testing sample libraries/virtual instruments and fx processors. Having low self noise in monitors is very important to me as I am often listening for hiss in very quiet tails of samples and editing audio.
I am using a pair of KH120’s and a MOTU 828es audio interface and the KH120’s have low self noise but I can still hear a faint hiss sat roughly 1.2m away from them with the output switch on the 100dB setting. If the Orbit 11’s have higher self noise than the KH120’s this is sadly a deal breaker for me. I really hope Palmer can improve this with either a firmware update or an update at some point.

Why not reduce them to 94dB? Not much reason having the gain higher than minimum unless your dac can't drive them to reference level, and it increases self noise.

 

[Robert_Hsu]

Guys. When you compare hiss with other speakers like Neumann or Genelec, do remember disconnecting input XLR connenctors.
The hiss from Orbit11's tweeter may very likely purely caused by Pre-PCBA and amplification circuit themselves. Or, let's say, higher noise floor from the electronics than other comparable products.
But still so far, this is the only downside if people put their speakers closer than 1-meter.

Ciao

 

[DanielT]

“Knulla flugor” i looked it up
Long live the european civilisation!
View attachment 516976

The meaning of the same expression/proverb is the same but is not as colorful let's say.
There should be variants of that proverb all over the world because it is a common thing for people to end up in that position when things are discussed.

Regarding noise that is raised in the thread. Generally, no matter how good a pair of active speakers may be, if there is audible noise, even a little bit of that, they are in my eyes eliminated as an alternative. At least as desktop speakers. Around a meter if I hear noise, nope then I don't buy new desktop speakers for $899. Longer listening distance then I can accept that.

Overall I have a little difficulty understanding why people choose active speakers as a desktop alternative, the risk of audible noise exists. I would definitely ask a number of users of the speaker regarding the noise audibility before buying.