Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[Chromatischism]

These are potentially interesting for a small home theater front 3, with a few concerns.

1. AVRs usually don't have XLR outputs
2. The bass drivers crossed at 250 Hz won't have much to do when subs are in play up to 80 Hz, but they are still helpful
3. Is that a light on top? Will have to cover them.

 

[Nuyes]

New measurements video

Thanks for sharing the video.

Normally I would have posted the review first on my website(Audio-re) or here on ASR, but this time I wanted to try an experimental approach and publish it as a video first.

My apologies for not sharing it with the ASR community earlier.
I’ll also try to put together a proper write-up for ASR.

 

[dasherzx]

These are potentially interesting for a small home theater front 3, with a few concerns.

1. AVRs usually don't have XLR outputs
2. The bass drivers crossed at 250 Hz won't have much to do when subs are in play up to 80 Hz, but they are still helpful
3. Is that a light on top? Will have to cover them.

There’s the minidsp tide and marantz av10/20/30 separate. I just bought the latter for my active monitors. I always cross capable speakers at 40, I have never enjoyed a speaker that can only do above that..

 

[Audionaut]

My apologies for not sharing it with the ASR community earlier.

Hello Nuyes,
There is no apologies needed.
Thank you very much for your test report.
It confirms many of the very positive aspects and sees the inherent noise of the speaker as THE flaw that makes it unsuitable for true near-field applications.
Anyone who uses it at greater distances should be happy with it.
Palmer's main focus in the further development of the Orbit 11 must therefore be on reducing the inherent noise.

 

[Karmacoma]

If they do address it with the next batch, i guess it would be a "quiet" upgrade (no pun intended), with regard from first batch owners and brand reputation. No idea what it would imply technically, if anyone knows you're welcome to elaborate on this.
Other than this, did you like them?

I'll answer myself, god bless ASR there is, of course, a thread on monitors' hiss

WHY oh WHY do monitors have hiss?!?

I mean it seems there are a lot of low-noise amplifiers out there-or am I conflating SINAD with raw output noise? (Well, I know I am, they are not the same thing, but am I crazy many amps are super quiet?). Yet I read SO many comments about hiss from monitors, not always cheap ones...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[90sNintendoKid]

I have a pair of Orbits and I am sitting in front of them as I write this post. I can hear hiss when I put my ear close to the tweeter. From around 1m I can barely hear it and I have the pad set to minus 20 and they are connected to a Minidsp DDRC88A via XLR which is fed by a Denon 3800H via RCA. This is with 8v balanced output gain on the XLR which I am going to drop to 4v.

I am going to doing some measurements to tweak the position because nearfield measurements show they are positioned in a null and I will do some hiss measurements at the same time and post my results.

I have ordered some pseudo balanced RCA to XLR cables and I will also test them.

 

[TimVG]

Perhaps a bit redundant at this point. I've been able to compare directly to my Genelecs as well. Yes, the self noise is indeed higher.
It may become an issue at <1m for some, even with the pad down to -20dB. I say may as with even the faintest of actual signal it gets masked entirely.

For those asking if using subs makes the Orbit's bass capabilities a bit redundent. In my use case (just over 2m) definitely not, there is plenty of energy in that region and you can be assured you'll be able to fill even a large space in this configuration without significant distortion or compression.

I've become a big fan of these. Easily the most enjoyable commercial speaker I've had in my room. Both to listen to and to work on, and I've tested more than a few.
Listening fatigue is incredibly low without sacrificing in terms of resolution. The only thing that I actively dislike about these speakers is the non-defeatable LED light, nothing that can't be solved with some tape or putty though.

Disclaimer: You'll need to take care in setting them up. Don't assume the word cardioid means set and forget. So, this means taking in-situ measurements. 98% of people will need to tame the low end output using the on-board controls possibly in combination with an external device. You'll also need to look for other pitfalls such as floor/ceiling bounce dips and adjust either the position of the speaker or the listener accordingly.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Perhaps a bit redundant at this point. I've been able to compare directly to my Genelecs as well. Yes, the self noise is indeed higher.
It may become an issue at <1m for some, even with the pad down to -20dB. I say may as with even the faintest of actual signal it gets masked entirely.

For those asking if using subs makes the Orbit's bass capabilities a bit redundent. In my use case (just over 2m) definitely not, there is plenty of energy in that region and you can be assured you'll be able to fill even a large space in this configuration without significant distortion or compression.

I've become a big fan of these. Easily the most enjoyable commercial speaker I've had in my room. Both to listen to and to work on, and I've tested more than a few.
Listening fatigue is incredibly low without sacrificing in terms of resolution. The only thing that I actively dislike about these speakers is the non-defeatable LED light, nothing that can't be solved with some tape or putty though.

Disclaimer: You'll need to take care in setting them up. Don't assume the word cardioid means set and forget. So, this means taking in-situ measurements. 98% of people will need to tame the low end output using the on-board controls possibly in combination with an external device. You'll also need to look for other pitfalls such as floor/ceiling bounce dips and adjust either the position of the speaker or the listener accordingly.

How do they compare to the Genelecs in the mids, highs, soundstage, details etc

 

[90sNintendoKid]

Perhaps a bit redundant at this point. I've been able to compare directly to my Genelecs as well. Yes, the self noise is indeed higher.
It may become an issue at <1m for some, even with the pad down to -20dB. I say may as with even the faintest of actual signal it gets masked entirely.

For those asking if using subs makes the Orbit's bass capabilities a bit redundent. In my use case (just over 2m) definitely not, there is plenty of energy in that region and you can be assured you'll be able to fill even a large space in this configuration without significant distortion or compression.

I've become a big fan of these. Easily the most enjoyable commercial speaker I've had in my room. Both to listen to and to work on, and I've tested more than a few.
Listening fatigue is incredibly low without sacrificing in terms of resolution. The only thing that I actively dislike about these speakers is the non-defeatable LED light, nothing that can't be solved with some tape or putty though.

Disclaimer: You'll need to take care in setting them up. Don't assume the word cardioid means set and forget. So, this means taking in-situ measurements. 98% of people will need to tame the low end output using the on-board controls possibly in combination with an external device. You'll also need to look for other pitfalls such as floor/ceiling bounce dips and adjust either the position of the speaker or the listener accordingly.

I fully agree with this, I will be using subwoofers with mine.

 

[MarkS]

How do they compare to the Genelecs in the mids, highs, soundstage, details etc

 

[Sokel]

@Nuyes 's video is gold addressing the hiss, specially the comparisons.
KH120 seems like the gold standard, still.

The thing is that the situation seems dire comparing it with the Edifier who has received hard criticism about its self-noise.
Palmer is way noisier and about on par with -20dB pad.

My crystal ball shows some serious redesigning.

 

[JoeDiMEG]

A friend with Adam Hall (LD systems, Palmer ...) ICOA 15 coax-active in his homecinema has no complains about any ORBIT 11 "hiss".

He uses the ORBITS 11 in front of his desk. 1 m listening distance. XLR connected. "Funk-Tonstudiotechnik" preamp.

My ears are good for 40 y. o. says the doctor. I don't hear a "hiss" either. Self-noise, yes, with my ears to the coax in 20 cm distance.

Same with Neumann, Genelec from my experience.

KR

 

[Pearljam5000]

And in English?

 

[KL....]

Hi amigos,

Since I haven't specifically checked all the pages, I'm sharing a link I found with real-world measurements of the Orbit 11.
It can be observed that the data shared by Palmer appears to correlate well with measurements in a real-world environment.

A phenomenal deal for the price!

PART 1 :

PART 2 :

Thank you, @daniboun, for the 1/3rd party measure, appreciated :=)
The Palmer measure compares well to the 1/3rd party measure, doesn't it....

• No Amp required.... Fabulous, simpler although longer/long Analogue/Digital (AES3) Interconnects are required.
• 120' x 120' H/V dispersion!!!! Fabulous although this indicates that these Speakers will need to be carefully placed/located/positioned in the Room, doesn't it, and CMs/MMs will matter, won't they?
• Its (relative) weakness is in the Low/Mid Bass area, isn't it, perhaps/possiblely a little Reactive Muddy (relative) and could be Tighter/Diffused/Damped without looseing the Real/Right/Natural Contrast. This suggests the Amp unit, Box, or both could be improved, reasonable? Mid/Treble distortion (Waterfall Plot) is very good, isn't it, as is the FR? The video shows, in an Open Environment, that he listened/recorded at 7m away (very impressive).
• The slightly off centre alignment of the Coaxial Tweeter is an issue, isn't it, especially as the Tweeter also relys on the Mid Cone as a Waveguide, and needs to be improved/corrected, doesn't it? Millimetres/Alignment matter, don't they?
• The Hiss issue suggests Amp unit, doesn't it? Hopefully they can also resolve this issue quickly.
• One post indicated that the AES3 did not work, so hopefully they can also resolve this issue quickly.
• Alot to like and a few issues that need to be attended to/corrected.
• Overall, Impressive....

The Palmer measures are, as follows....

 

[90sNintendoKid]

I'm not sure why people keep mentioning the Orbits sounding muddy. I propose just use EQ, the barrier to entry nowadays is low in my opinion.

 

[KL....]

New measurements video

Thank you, @sidechain , for the 1/3rd party measure, appreciated :=)

• Very similar to the other 1/3rd party measure, isn't it?

 

[RickS]

Thanks for sharing the video.

Normally I would have posted the review first on my website(Audio-re) or here on ASR, but this time I wanted to try an experimental approach and publish it as a video first.

My apologies for not sharing it with the ASR community earlier.
I’ll also try to put together a proper write-up for ASR.

@sidechain post was deleted as it lacked summary. Now that I know it is you, please add a summary to your post. Thanks!

 

[dasherzx]

Can we have the measured data in spinorama

 

[RexrothPigeon]

E

And in English?

English:
You have been a (very) active ASR member for almost six years. It is a categorical indictment of your intellect and/or character that you still cannot interpret the measurements enough to answer these very basic questions.

 

[KL....]

I'm not sure why people keep mentioning the Orbits sounding muddy. I propose just use EQ, the barrier to entry nowadays is low in my opinion.

Thank you/Apologys, Yes, the FR suggests that 'perhaps/possiblely a little Muddy (relative)' is incorrect, doesn't it? Perhaps, re Distortion measure and in Hindsight, 'perhaps/possiblely little Reactive (relative)' is more appropriate (a better Term), reasonable?

The Measure, overall, exhibits.... Impressive

Note that 120' x 120' H/V dispersion suggests that the Soundstage will be presented differently....

• Permits close to Rear Positioning which implys that the Soundstage Depth will tend to be forward of the Speakers and less Behind (usual is Behind & Forward).
• Suggests less Rear Wall, Rear Corners, & 1st Reflection interactions.