Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[Tell]

At a similar price point it's hard to choose between KH120 II and Orbit 11

I'd definitely go for the Orbit with it much better controlled directivity.

 

[Audionaut]

At a similar price point it's hard to choose between KH120 II and Orbit 11

I don't think you'll ever be able to decide, because you're constantly searching for the perfect speaker.
But there is no such thing like 'the perfect speaker'
There is only ever one speaker that more or less meets your requirements.

 

[Audionaut]

As promised, Part 2 of the review.

Well, everything's gone, the whole thread.
Why?

 

[Ratterbass]

Well, everything's gone, the whole thread.
Why?

Apparently the account was reported for advertising. Can't make this up. Guy posts high quality measurements and the thread gets taken down lol

 

[TimVG]

I think the account is just under review after the report. I'm sure it'll be fine as literally in the original post he said none of his videos are monetized.

 

[olieb]

I think the account is just under review after the report.

I would hope so.
But who can shout "advertising" with the result of a whole thread being taken down immediately?

 

[Tovarich007]

I don't think you'll ever be able to decide, because you're constantly searching for the perfect speaker.
But there is no such thing like 'the perfect speaker'
There is only ever one speaker that more or less meets your requirements.

Like Audionaut, I think Pearljam is an overhesitating member of this forum, or perhaps a dreamer, wishing something isn't able to afford.

Anyway, these are two very different speakers and I don't thik the comparison is valuable.

1) The Neumann KH120II is a small 2 way speaker, one of the very best in its class, sourced from a major and long term well reputated company. Moreover, it can be precisely calibrated thru Neumann MA1 software.

2) The Palmer Orbit 11 is a bit larger, it's a three way going super low in bass for its size, with a good coax main driver "à la Genelec". Design wise, the Orbit 11 is a sort of cheaper cross breed between a D&D and a Genelec The Ones. Its VFM is intrinsically superior to the Neumann, but it comes from a company which seems very serious and exists for a long time, but doesn't have the pedigree of companies like Genelec, Neumann, PSI or ATC. This may be a concern for some people. And for a precise calibration (if needed, it depends on your use and preference) it's necessary to implement in your computer a dedicated software like Sonarworks, Dirac or ARC.

As for me, all things considered I would choose the Palmer, I think it's worth the risk to buy a product form such a new company for monitoring.
But with a good sub well calibrated, the Neumann or a Genelec would be another story.

 

[TomLynas]

I’ve really not got time to read all 77pages of this thread.

Can anyone give me an update to whether amir is measuring these yet? Has he been sent one?

Can’t trust anything I see on the manufacturers page so I’m waiting for him before I make my opinion on them!

 

[RickS]

Well, everything's gone, the whole thread.
Why?

The review thread was merged here. No content has been lost.

It matters less whether or not someone monetizes their content. ASR policy does not allow self promotion. If you compare how our other reviewers operate here, they do not use offsite content to share their measurements. The reviewer in question has been badged but has not accepted the terms for promotional activity. We are not responsible for determining whether offsite content is being monetized or will be at some point in the future.

We are responsible for consistently limiting commercial activity at ASR. If further clarification is desired, contact me privately or on the Forum Suggestions thread.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Man, of course we have to ask this, but talk about an unfair comparison... Desktop monitor vs. 4-way Tower at 10x the price...

In other news I guess we've found the "catch" with these speakers... Relatively high self noise and maybe audible group delay/ phase distortion in the bass.

How bad is that "catch"?

 

[staticV3]

Can anyone give me an update to whether amir is measuring these yet? Has he been sent one?

Palmer has sent Amir a unit, but it's still stuck in shipping.

Can’t trust anything I see on the manufacturers page so I’m waiting for him before I make my opinion on them!

In the meantime, you can find detailed, anechoic 3rd party measurements from ASR member @stoneeh on YouTube.

 

[dasherzx]

At a similar price point it's hard to choose between KH120 II and Orbit 11

in which aspect? capability wise it seems to be toe to toe even with the kh 150.

 

[Pearljam5000]

in which aspect? capability wise it seems to be toe to toe even with the kh 150.

Accuracy
Soundstage
Bass output and SPL is less important to me because my room is small

 

[Caldera]

how do they compare to the Salon2?

Sorry for the late reply. Your question is difficult to answer because the Salon 2 and the Orbit 11 are loudspeakers designed for very different purposes.

The Orbit 11 is designed to minimize early (first-order) reflections from the room or studio. The goal is to make the perceived sound as independent as possible from the acoustic properties of the listening environment.

The Salon 2, on the other hand, follows almost the opposite design philosophy. It is intended to interact with the early reflections typically present in an average living room in order to approximate the Harman in-room target curve, which many listeners prefer. This preference is supported by numerous scientifically controlled double-blind listening tests conducted by Floyd Toole and colleagues, which are comprehensively described in his book Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms. Humans generally seem to prefer the sound of loudspeakers in a real room with some amount of reflected sound over the sound reproduced in an acoustically dead chamber.

The Orbit 11, in contrast, is designed primarily as a studio monitor. Its goal is to reproduce the signal as independently from room acoustics as possible, allowing engineers to evaluate more directly what is actually coming out of the loudspeaker. This design philosophy aims to reduce the well-known “circle of confusion” described by Floyd Toole. If bass-capable and neutral monitors like the Orbit 11 became more widely adopted in studios, that could be a step toward reducing this circle of confusion, just my 2 ct.

In addition, in a 50 m² living room the Salon 2 will clearly outperform the Orbit 11 once the latter reaches its SPL limits. The Salon 2 is designed for substantially higher maximum output and headroom, which becomes relevant in larger listening spaces. In my experience, the Salon 2 can reproduce much of the atmosphere and, in part, the scale of live concerts, which, again, is limited by the room acoustics.

See also
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...eakers-are-about-to-launch.54794/post-2535871

 

[kemmler3D]

I wouldn't necessarily call it a catch, because every speaker is a compromise and you always have to choose which compromises to make and where to set your priorities.
In the case of the Palmer Orbit 11, you get a very well-rounded complete package at a very good price.
You don't need any power amplifiers, you have a point source, cardioid characteristics, and you get bass reproduction from this tiny enclosure that's like that of large floor-standing speakers. The fact that this amazing bass reproduction is then cited in this thread as a disadvantage for integration into living spaces shows in example what I mean when I say that you have to set priorities when choosing speakers and always make compromises.
You can't please everyone with one speaker.

I mean "catch" in the sense of this speaker seeming too good to be true for the money... As you say no speaker is perfect, but before seeing those measurements I wasn't sure where the trade-offs had come in, and that seems to be where.

Overall they seem like quite minor trade offs and I basically agree with your assessment.

 

[levimax]

in which aspect? capability wise it seems to be toe to toe even with the kh 150.

To me it looks like the Orbit 11's are most comparable to the KH310's. Outside of "self noise" I don't see where the KH310's outperform.

 

[denork]

To me it looks like the Orbit 11's are most comparable to the KH310's. Outside of "self noise" I don't see where the KH310's outperform.

3000$ vs 785$

 

[sidechain]

3000$ vs 785$

The KH310s outperform in price, thats for sure.

 

[levimax]

3000$ vs 785$

To be fair you can buy the KH 310's for $2,500, and have them in a few days, but yes the price difference is striking. Between AsciLabs and Palmer the speaker market is being shaken up which can only benefit consumers.

 

[Bwaslo]

I just got the "no idea when we'll get them" email from B&H about my Feb 11 order for Orbit 11s. Not sure whether to just cancel, I'm running C6Bs with subs and don't really have any complaints about them.