Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[amirm]

Compression, Burst decay, and MD is something that Amir does not test.

I do test for real compression in active speakers (amplifier limiting). What he measures is not "compression" but slight frequency response changes with levels. That is not compression.

Neither Burst decay, nor MD should enter your equation in making a buy/no-buy decision. As I have repeatedly explained, but the folklore doesn't go away, multi-tone spreads non linearity across the full audible spectrum, making it highly unlikely that it rises above threshold of hearing. And if you can't tell resonances from frequency response, I don't know what to tell you.

As to testing more wild samples, two out of countless when sent by manufacturer is not going to achieve that.

So while there is some tiny benefit in having Erin also test a speaker, that is not going to change the landscape post my testing. Heck, we haven't even gotten samples for me to test as to already ask for other reviews!

 

[Hemi-Demon]

Hey Guys,

love to see the discussion and interest! Amir and I are in contact and we're trying to send him a pair as soon as possible. As the availability in the us usually takes a little longer than in europe we're trying to find the fastest way for you guys.

Thanks also for the kind words I read in here. If somebody is ever close to our headquarters hit me up and I can provide a tour through our showroom, labs (semi-anechoic chamber, etc.) and the rock'n'roll library.

In the meantime I'll try to answer most questions as best as possible. Please bear with me, when this sometimes takes some time.



1. Yes. 2x 250W, 1x 500W
2. Yes, the latency is a little less when AES is used as input. We estimate it's around 0.3ms less. But will test it for you.
3. Yes they are in seperated sealed boxes. I will post an inside view for you.
4. Yes. Palmer always grants 5 years warranty. This would be handled through your dealer, which will most likely than contact us.

1. Correct. Closed enclosure for the bass drivers, and and slit vents on all four sides to serve cardioid for the coax.
2. The Amplifier and the Power supply ist cooled via the aluminum housing. We use the whole enclosure for it.


1. It´s Service Port for service Duty only. We try to keep products easy serviceable for sustainability and longevity reasons.
2. Yes, the Pad controls the AES input Signal as well
3. No, the screws on the bottom are holding the SMPS in place, but you can remove the Feets and cloud use the mounting holes for a custom solution
4. No
5. The front light is always on, as it is the indicator for power status and the limiter (if active). The top lights of the control panel turn off automatically after 20s


Yes, the graph is smoothed.

One goody for you: That is the inside of Orbit 11
There you see how we packed everything in the very limited space of the enclosure. And you can see highlighted the sealing wall between the mid-/hi-drivers and the enclosure for the woofers on the sides.
View attachment 510551

I will most likely buy 3 or 5 of these for a small room HT setup. I would love to get rid of that orange ring and replace it with the appearance of the fascia on the side woofer. Also would it be possible by firmware update to either disable the front power light or make the bulb white or blue to match most current audio equipment? I understand this was designed as a studio monitor, so please disregard if these options are not possible.

Also would it be possible to post the distortion measurements at 94db?

Thanks

 

[Liftro]

I do test for real compression in active speakers (amplifier limiting). What he measures is not "compression" but slight frequency response changes with levels. That is not compression.

Neither Burst decay, nor MD should enter your equation in making a buy/no-buy decision. As I have repeatedly explained, but the folklore doesn't go away, multi-tone spreads non linearity across the full audible spectrum, making it highly unlikely that it rises above threshold of hearing. And if you can't tell resonances from frequency response, I don't know what to tell you.

As to testing more wild samples, two out of countless when sent by manufacturer is not going to achieve that.

So while there is some tiny benefit in having Erin also test a speaker, that is not going to change the landscape post my testing. Heck, we haven't even gotten samples for me to test as to already ask for other reviews!

For me, just having the opportunity to see what each of you does is invaluable and helps my wallet and welfare , and besides that, it's a chance to learn how things work and how they should work. Buying speakers sight unseen or because they get good reviews in a magazine is over. Putting faith in the manufacturer is out of the question. I need to see to believe, not just hear or read. That's why if just one of you can do the job, I'm happy. Thank you.

 

[sidechain]

I will most likely buy 3 or 5 of these for a small room HT setup. I would love to get rid of that orange ring and replace it with the appearance of the fascia on the side woofer. Also would it be possible by firmware update to either disable the front power light or make the bulb white or blue to match most current audio equipment? I understand this was designed as a studio monitor, so please disregard if these options are not possible.

Also would it be possible to post the distortion measurements at 94db?

Thanks

Yeah if the Orbit 11s do 80% of what they promise they will be market disrupters at this price point, but damn that orange ring makes them look... cheap? Reminds me of the green Mackie circle. Anybody knows of a company that makes stickable black speaker surround rings that could fit these and hide the orange?

 

[bmc0]

What he measures is not "compression" but slight frequency response changes with levels. That is not compression.

If there is a frequency-dependent decrease in sensitivity due to increased voice coil resistance (from increased temperature) at high levels, what do you call it? The standard term is "power compression". I do agree though that not all of what shows up in such plots can reasonably be called compression.

 

[Liftro]

Yeah if the Orbit 11s do 80% of what they promise they will be market disrupters at this price point, but damn that orange ring makes them look... cheap? Reminds me of the green Mackie circle. Anybody knows of a company that makes stickable black speaker surround rings that could fit these and hide the orange?

I'm not convinced either, but I could live with it in a white version.

 

[NTK]

If there is a frequency-dependent decrease in sensitivity due to increased voice coil resistance (from increased temperature) at high levels, what do you call it? The standard term is "power compression". I do agree though that not all of what shows up in such plots can reasonably be called compression.

AFAICT, Erin runs a few sweeps of 2.7 seconds for his test. It is hardly enough to raise the voice-coil temperatures to anywhere close to the steady state values during continuous high output use situations. The problem I see is that a "proper" power compression test will have a high probability of damaging the speaker.

Source: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/ascilab_f6b/

 

[kemmler3D]

Anybody knows of a company that makes stickable black speaker surround rings that could fit these and hide the orange?

Would be very easy to 3D print if we had the dimensions, then you could glue or use double sided tape.

 

[amirm]

If there is a frequency-dependent decrease in sensitivity due to increased voice coil resistance (from increased temperature) at high levels, what do you call it?

There is no temperature rise in these quick sweeps. Klippel has proper thermal compression tests but they require a temperature probe to run. And at any rate, they run for very long time. Nothing like the tests you see.

 

[amirm]

I do agree though that not all of what shows up in such plots can reasonably be called compression.

The graphs show every differential between the level sweeps. Even things like distortion gets thrown in there, modifying the frequency response.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

I will most likely buy 3 or 5 of these for a small room HT setup. I would love to get rid of that orange ring and replace it with the appearance of the fascia on the side woofer. Also would it be possible by firmware update to either disable the front power light or make the bulb white or blue to match most current audio equipment? I understand this was designed as a studio monitor, so please disregard if these options are not possible.

Also would it be possible to post the distortion measurements at 94db?

Thanks

I'm doing the same, at least LCR is the independent measurements are good.

 

[Paul7777x]

Yeah if the Orbit 11s do 80% of what they promise they will be market disrupters at this price point, but damn that orange ring makes them look... cheap? Reminds me of the green Mackie circle. Anybody knows of a company that makes stickable black speaker surround rings that could fit these and hide the orange?

It would be possible to buy sheets of good quality vinyl wrap (of the type used for cars), and with a steady hand and sharp scissors and/or carpet knife cut out a matching size circle and cover the offending ring so that it appears as any colour and shade you’d like.

I’d find a sheet or two in satin black and be happy. I don’t think I could look long at the plasticky, toy looking ring as it stands.

 

[AudioJester]

It would be possible to buy sheets of good quality vinyl wrap (of the type used for cars), and with a steady hand and sharp scissors and/or carpet knife cut out a matching size circle and cover the offending ring so that it appears as any colour and shade you’d like.

I’d find a sheet or two in satin black and be happy. I don’t think I could look long at the plasticky, toy looking ring as it stands.

You need to be very careful with a heat gun as that orange ring is right next to the driver. Maybe just sticky contact book cover type would be safer?

Hopwfully Adam Hall is appreciating the feedback regarding the orange ring!

I might be in for a set for my desktop - my kef lsx has died. Cant see an Australian reseller though.

 

[Paul7777x]

You need to be very careful with a heat gun as that orange ring is right next to the driver. Maybe just sticky contact book cover type would be safer?

Hopwfully Adam Hall is appreciating the feedback regarding the orange ring!

I might be in for a set for my desktop - my kef lsx has died. Cant see an Australian reseller though.

God yes! No heat gun at all, just the sticky stuff and the proper felt covered edge tool to make sure it sticks properly.

Considering the size of the company I’m sure there’ll be an outlet in Australia soon enough.

I’m getting quite excited by these, even though they still seem too good to be true for the price... though I’ve no real reason to think that other than the expense of other, similar offerings.

 

[Jiraya369]

holy. i want this if it actually measures well.
guess ill prepare trading in my r3 metas

unless you have massive nulls at 300-500 hz, i dont really see why you would do that, just add a little sub if you want bass and you're good to go

 

[Downsideup]

I'd have to get rid of the orange ring if I ever get one I suppose.
Yesterday, I called a shop supposed to have them soon. They said ( or maybe they mentioned Palmer just said ) to use a black marker on the ring and deal with it that way.
Of course I prefer an original black ring. May it could be made and sold separately by Palmer.

 

[jhaider]

Any chance of optional grilles for these? Such a great concept, but…gotta have grilles.

 

[bmc0]

AFAICT, Erin runs a few sweeps of 2.7 seconds for his test. It is hardly enough to raise the voice-coil temperatures to anywhere close to the steady state values during continuous high output use situations.

There is no temperature rise in these quick sweeps.

A voice coil is a few grams of copper with fairly high thermal resistance. True, the magnet structure temperature will hardly increase, but it doesn't take long at all for the voice coil's temperature to jump. Here's a Klippel paper about loudspeaker thermal modeling. The voice coil of the example driver (which appears to be a fairly typical woofer) has a thermal capacity of 3.6Ws/K and a thermal resistance of 5.9K/W. Unless I've done the math wrong (and please correct me if I have), putting just 25W into this driver for one second will raise the voice coil temperature by nearly 70K according to the linear thermal model.

 

[thewas]

AFAICT, Erin runs a few sweeps of 2.7 seconds for his test. It is hardly enough to raise the voice-coil temperatures to anywhere close to the steady state values during continuous high output use situations. The problem I see is that a "proper" power compression test will have a high probability of damaging the speaker.

View attachment 510677
Source: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/ascilab_f6b/

Erin measures and shows additionally a 30s compression one based on the multitone stimulus of his MD measurement which is more demanding and closer to reality, exemplary the short sine one

and the 30s multitone one

Source and more:

Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

Compression, Burst decay, and MD is something that Amir does not test. I do test for real compression in active speakers (amplifier limiting). What he measures is not "compression" but slight frequency response changes with levels. That is not compression. Neither Burst decay, nor MD should...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[amirm]

A voice coil is a few grams of copper with fairly high thermal resistance. True, the magnet structure temperature will hardly increase, but it doesn't take long at all for the voice coil's temperature to jump. Here's a Klippel paper about loudspeaker thermal modeling. The voice coil of the example driver (which appears to be a fairly typical woofer) has a thermal capacity of 3.6Ws/K and a thermal resistance of 5.9K/W. Unless I've done the math wrong (and please correct me if I have), putting just 25W into this driver for one second will raise the voice coil temperature by nearly 70K according to the linear thermal model.

You post a paper about non-linear modeling of voice coil heating and then go off using linear model? And steady state at that when here, we have a dynamic sweep, going from one driver to another?

So no, you can't use that. Convection cooling plays a large part here, as does the transient nature of this signal, hence the need for non-linear modelling. You will be lucky if the temp rise is 5 degrees. Go ahead and do the experiment and report back the temp rise.