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Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

They do? Here I thought everyone likes ice cream. Or Hamburger. Or dislikes Dorian fruit (although I am a bit of an exception in liking them a bit!).

Please don't keep repeating this myth and intuition. It simply is not true. Many of us will dislike too much bass, or treble. Or absence of midrange. And this is key from research: we have an intuition that guides us away from coloration. Absence of error, as Dr. Toole would say, is what appeals to us.
Dear Amir, you're not the only one here, we're at least two in ASR, andmaybe more : I like dorian fruit too, fresh or in cakes (less in ice cream).
Well, that's off topic, but for a frenchie like me, you know the importance of food.
 
Hello ASR.

This is my in-depth review of the Palmer Orbit 11.

Contents:

- measurements of on and off axis frequency response, phase, decay behavior, harmonic distortion, multitone distortion, maximum SPL in free field environment, ...
- preset comparison
- comparison to manufacturer data
- measurement comparisons to other speakers
- sound sample (with music)
- practical impressions
- and more

Information / disclaimers:

- the speaker was purchased new, not loaned or a test sample.
- if you see an ad on this video, it is from the music copyright holder. My YT channel is not monetized as of this date; I do not receive any monetary gain from it.

Enjoy!

Excellent work! Thanks for sharing.
 
Absolutely. The good recordings of the past were "good for their time." But don't hold a candle to many modern recordings. I remember back in those times that we had so few "reference" recordings. You know, the Eagles, Michael Jackson, etc. And even later with Diana Krall, Patricia Barber and such. Now, there is an explosion of artists and with it, great recordings through smaller labels. I listen to Roon automatic suggestions from Tidal and it only takes 10 to 15 minutes before I land on a recording that makes me add that track to my reference list.
Unlike for dorian fruit, I'm not sure to (completely) agree with you on that issue. OK, there are a lot of good recordings today, in jazz, clasical and sometimes in rock/pop/electronica. But there are even more that are spectacular souding but plagued by excess of compression and too high SPL.

As for classical music and jazz, some records of the past were very very good, not only for their time, but always very good now : old Deccas, Oiseau Lyre, Telefunken, old ORTFs (french public radio), old Mercury, Hungaroton, Supraphon, Melodiya in the east. And in jazz some Atlantic, Columbia, Blue note, Impulse, the first ECM, etc.
Technology has made huge progress, but the ears and artistic sensibility of musicians, sound technicians and engineers are more important than everything else, and in our crazy greedy times, that hasn't progressed at all.
 
Hello ASR.

This is my in-depth review of the Palmer Orbit 11.

Contents:

- measurements of on and off axis frequency response, phase, decay behavior, harmonic distortion, multitone distortion, maximum SPL in free field environment, ...
- preset comparison
- comparison to manufacturer data
- measurement comparisons to other speakers
- sound sample (with music)
- practical impressions
- and more

Information / disclaimers:

- the speaker was purchased new, not loaned or a test sample.
- if you see an ad on this video, it is from the music copyright holder. My YT channel is not monetized as of this date; I do not receive any monetary gain from it.

Enjoy!

Mille mercis (Thousand thanks):) Excellent test and excellent results for this speaker.
But why in your opinion AES inputs didn't work ? Did you ask Palmer about tis ?
 
Hello ASR.

This is my in-depth review of the Palmer Orbit 11.

Contents:

- measurements of on and off axis frequency response, phase, decay behavior, harmonic distortion, multitone distortion, maximum SPL in free field environment, ...
- preset comparison
- comparison to manufacturer data
- measurement comparisons to other speakers
- sound sample (with music)
- practical impressions
- and more

Information / disclaimers:

- the speaker was purchased new, not loaned or a test sample.
- if you see an ad on this video, it is from the music copyright holder. My YT channel is not monetized as of this date; I do not receive any monetary gain from it.

Enjoy!

Thanks Stoneeh for the measurements, as good as can be had (and better than expected, puts Sterophile meas to shame!) without a Klippel.

Now, getting to the most important issue -- in the vid, the orange ring looks more red in natural lighting. Is that accurate? :rolleyes:
 
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Sorry to interrupt, folks.

But after 1 1/2 days of non-stop slaving on data aquisition, compilation, and video editing, I can share -> Palmer Orbit 11 in-depth measurement review

Tldr: manufacturer data is for the most part correct - the performance claims for this speaker are legit.


Here are some charts that you may use here on the forum; if you need any others from the video, shoot me a message. Also don't hesitate to ask about anything else.

View attachment 514201

View attachment 514200
IMPRESSIVE!
or your choice of NSFW EXPRESSIONS!
Are there many other ways to qualify those measurements?
yeah! I am waiting for reviews and measurements from @amirm and you too Erin, in the mantime ... Damn!
 
Hi Stoneeh,
Thank you very much for your excellent work and for sharing your measurement results and impressions.
You are usually involved in building your own speakers. What made you decide to buy the Orbit 11?
Curiosity? Need?
As I wrote in another thread, I wouldn't trust myself to build this speaker for the same price you can buy it ready-made.
I think Palmer/Adam Hall has done a really good job here.
 
Now, getting to the most important issue -- in the vid, the orange ring looks more red in natural lighting. Is that accurate? :rolleyes:
Yes, it's the dark orange/light red of the sun rising and downing following it's orbit (11 or so)... if you want to know exactly ask Palmer for the RAL number.
For natural colour comparison see my post in original thread.
 
If you don't find a dealer or want to listen at home PM ;)
Actually I have a dealer very close by. Just a 20 minute drive. And if I can combine it to my way to work or back home it is anyhow more or less on my way. But thanks for the offer.
 
Noting that its bass headroom seems to run out between 90-95dB in the bass region. You can see it rolls off bass massively above 96dB but it's already falling off there. Plus, its distortion-limited max SPL (I assume that's for 3%?) is not high in the lower regions.

IOW: This is a nearfield monitor, do not expect it to run loud without subs.
 
Stoneeh, is the SPL levels for distortion/headroom measured related to the measurement 2m distance or the standard 1m?
 
Thank you for the kind and interesting responses. I will just answer the questions before they pile up.

Thanks Stoneeh for the measurements, as good as can be had (and better than expected, puts Sterophile meas to shame!) without a Klippel.

It's amazing what a simple concrete strip, ~1000€ worth of measurement hardware, and a couple of thousands of hours of experience can do.

Shoutouts to ARTA too, and also Dr. Weber who wrote the amazing ARTA tutorial from which I learned quite a bit. And Mark Gander for coming up with the GPM method to begin with.

Now, getting to the most important issue -- in the vid, the orange ring looks more red in natural lighting. Is that accurate?

Haha. Well actually, I think that's more the phone's image processing algorithms.. but if I put the speaker outside again I can pay special attention next time.

You are usually involved in building your own speakers. What made you decide to buy the Orbit 11?
Curiosity? Need?
As I wrote in another thread, I wouldn't trust myself to build this speaker for the same price you can buy it ready-made.

Curiosity. I actually asked Palmer for a unit via FB immediately after the announcement, and they never even read my message. So I had to buy one. I will be sending this one back, not because I dislike it, but because I am 100% satisfied with my current speaker system.

Yes, this level of performance at this price is what I'd expect of a company with huge ressources, both in brainpower as well as equipment, benefitting from economy of scale. Well done.

Did you use the manufacturer's THD (at 96dB spl) to compare with other speakers? The spike at 2.5kHz seems to be absent in your measurement.

I'm glad there's people observant enough to notice. Yes. I used the 94 dB manufacturer measurement and scaled it up slightly to represent 96 dB. Reason being that the result is very similar, and ARTA doesn't display THD, so I'd have to extract and manually add up the harmonics.. too much work, too little time. And that spike is probably just some type of glitch that should be ignored.

I love your setup! Lovely place. Is there a reason you did no flatten out the "walls" at the sides? I would be afraid it creates some reflections, but probably the effect is small.

It's an old family property, very remote, ~1km from the nearest house of the next village. You need a place that's 1. free field (no large obstacles in the vicinity) 2. quiet (low ambient noise) 3. remote (no meaningful noise pollution to residents) for these types of measurements. I live 5, 10 minutes drive from there. I park my car ~15m from the concrete strip, and use an Ective SI 30 12 -> 230V converter that's installed in my trunk as power supply. Ah yes, and the view is magnificent too, I agree
I paid closer attention to having no dirt "walls" at the edges of the strip earlier, then at some point saw they make no difference, so I just pile them up. This is the soil that is used to cover the concrete strip when I'm not using it.

why in your opinion AES inputs didn't work ? Did you ask Palmer about tis ?

As I stated in the video, S/PDIF was used, which according to the Palmer rep should have worked (source):

Orbit 11 will handle your SPDIF signal as well. Only issue could be too little output from your SPDIF Source.

Actually I did get a signal, only it was very weird in that the Orbit then had a skewed frequency response, in that it had a high frequency rolloff. Dunno what that was about. Since that made the speaker unuseable, I declared the AES/EBU via S/PDIF connection attempt a failure.
 
Noting that its bass headroom seems to run out between 90-95dB in the bass region. You can see it rolls off bass massively above 96dB but it's already falling off there. Plus, its distortion-limited max SPL (I assume that's for 3%?) is not high in the lower regions.

IOW: This is a nearfield monitor, do not expect it to run loud without subs.
For the proclamated 106 dB the surround of the bass drivers is too small, so the estimated and now measured limit before compression around 95 dB seems to be true , what is absolutely sufficient for home and studio.
If more bass is needed, a sub can be added without problems (HP provided).
 
Yes, this level of performance at this price is what I'd expect of a company with huge ressources, both in brainpower as well as equipment
Compared to the big companies in the audio industry, Palmer (around 10 employees)
is a very small fish and Adam Hall is a small fish (350–400 employees)
 
@stoneeh I suppose data below 100 Hz couldn't be captured reliably?

@dfuller 1% not 3%


5WFXuEA.png
 
And that spike is probably just some type of glitch that should be ignored.
That was my point. I was surprised that @UffdiePalme had this in the data, as it looked like the effect of a “special” unit or a mechanical glitch during sweeps. And looking at your measurements that seems to be the case. Apparently, they are kind of too honest with their data. Lower mid distortion around 84dB seems a bit higher than advertised on the other hand.
But still it is amazing what they accomplish in this price range in all aspects.
I paid closer attention to having no dirt "walls" at the edges of the strip earlier, then at some point saw they make no difference, so I just pile them up.
Yeah, after thinking about it, it becomes clear.
 
Compared to the big companies in the audio industry, Palmer (around 10 employees)
is a very small fish and Adam Hall is a small fish (350–400 employees)
What are the corresponding numbers at Hypex, for example?
R&D and marketing does not mean production.
 
They just bumped the price by 300$, was definitely a mistake.
Yep, saw that myself, actually bumped it up $400… had a pair in the cart this morning but didn’t checkout lol.
 
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What are the corresponding numbers at Hypex, for example?
R&D and marketing does not mean production.
Hypex is also a small medium-sized company.
Yes, excellence does not depend on the number of employees, but on their potential.
I just wanted to point out that they do not have unlimited funds and financial resources.

PS
Just for fun, here are a few of the big players in the audio and consumer electronics market for comparison.

Samsung Electronics employs around 260,000 people and generates annual sales of over USD 300 billion; its audio subsidiary Harman International has around 30,000 employees and sales of around USD 10 billion.
Apple Inc. has approximately 160,000 employees and sales of over USD 400 billion. Sony Group Corporation employs around 110,000 people and has a turnover of around USD 90 billion.
LG Electronics has approximately 75,000 employees and a turnover of over USD 60 billion.
Yamaha Corporation has around 28,000 employees and an annual turnover of a few billion USD.
 
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