Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[somebodyelse]

Therefore, I would probably only need one wireless power outlet per speaker. I need to find out if there are systems that allow me to operate eleven outlets

You can pair up to 10 IKEA Tretakt wireless power switches to a single Rodret remote. For more than that you need a controller like their Dirigera, or an automation system like HomeAssistant with a ZigBee dongle.

 

[Shrek6]

I agree, i use fir filtering with obscene latency too in my dsping. I just find it a bit strange it becoming a selling point for the monitor application. According to chat gpt, the kii three has 90 ms and the 8C 33ms of latency with linear phase engaged, making the feature basically unusable in the intended application, which I find a bit weird. One would think it's something more appetibile for the hi fi rather than pro market.

Well.. modern DAW software has latency/delay compensation. But I would hope these have a low latency mode like the Kii speakers

 

[RexrothPigeon]

What do you guys think about the off-centered midrange/tweeter? Is that acceptable? I just think I would hate seeing that all the time. Once you know something like that, you always focus on it and see it. The gap in the 10 o'clock position is half the width of that in the 3 or 4 o'clock position.

Not saying you should feel the same way, but for me, a budget product like this exceeds expectations if it EITHER has fit and finish above its class OR performs above its class. Both would of course be ideal, but then my assumption is that it will just have to be priced accordingly.

 

[kemmler3D]

Well.. modern DAW software has latency/delay compensation.

AFAIK this just adds delay to individual tracks to prevent plugins from making them go out of sync. It's very handy, but I don't think there is any way to actually reduce latency once it's in the signal chain, DAW or otherwise, other than removing the delay-causing process.

IMO latency as short as 20-50ms can throw off a performance / recording, and depending on your skill level, might be a problem for gaming. But 100-200ms can be acceptable for video depending on your personal sensitivity to it. For pure mixing / mastering I think latency is generally not a showstopper but can be annoying.

For listening or even movies I'll tend to use the phase linearization option if there is one, but I would turn it off if I were recording a performance of some kind.

 

[kemmler3D]

Not saying you should feel the same way, but for me, a budget product like this exceeds expectations if it EITHER has fit and finish above its class OR performs above its class. Both would of course be ideal, but then my assumption is that it will just have to be priced accordingly.

You have a point here, but IMO anything on the housing can be askew except for the drivers, and especially the tweeter in a coaxial setup. If one of the buttons is 3mm to the left, I'm not going to care or post about it. If the tweeter is 3mm to the left, it will have some (maybe only theoretical) impact on sound quality, and it is the most eye-catching type of flaw this kind of speaker can have IMO.

 

[Mort]

So yes, I essentially agree with you. Even if a speaker is used by a professional in critical listening (which in my opinion is somewhat different from ”recreational” listening), it doesn’t automatically make it a great speaker technically, and even if a speaker shines on most measurements, it still might not suit every working professional.

This is all true but isn't it an artifact of becoming adapted to non linear reproduction? If you are raised on b&w nautilus that will sound 'normal'.

If you were taking 10 new recruits through music production class 101 would you start them off with a non-linear system? Of course not. There's no reason to.

 

[b73i57dc3f]

But I would hope these have a low latency mode like the Kii speakers

Latency is 4.1 ms, according to page 15 of the user manual (https://portal.adamhall.com/downloadcenter/products?article=PORBIT11).

 

[Bwaslo]

Latency is 4.1 ms, according to page 15 of the user manual (https://portal.adamhall.com/downloadcenter/products?article=PORBIT11).

4.1msec is eqiv to sitting 1.4meters further fromnthe speaker. Is that actually significant?

 

[kemmler3D]

4.1msec is eqiv to sitting 1.4meters further fromnthe speaker. Is that actually significant?

I think latency is significant when a lag between input or video and audio becomes noticeable. I'd say 4.1ms would take a mighty fine sense of timing to notice. 20ms is said to be the threshold of discrimination, i.e. when two discrete sounds stop sounding like a single sound.

To put it another way, I think you could add 4.1ms delay to most (all?) people's systems and they would never know unless you told them.

 

[jhaider]

I hope they figured out how to implement a concentric driver properly. Till now, I haven't heard or seen others that did it well besides Kef or Genelec...

TAD/Pioneer and MoFi. Of course they have the same foundation as KEF…

 

[Froghawk]

Perhaps it's too early to answer this, but for those who have heard both, how does the soundstage and imaging on these compare to the Kali IN-8 v2s? These are the only other budget 3 way coax in the game right now, yeah? I'm very impressed with the depth of the IN-8s, but am wondering if these will actually be significantly better on that front. They certainly look like they would be on paper, but the user reviews thus far here don't seem to point that way...

 

[MrBlueSky4470]

A wrong camera angle makes every coax look like a hoax:

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/media/2017/06/genelec-8331-sam-and-8341-sam-st.jpg

KR

Complete nonsense. You can't compare your picture to mine. I tried to align the photo precisely along the speaker axis and hold my phone parallel to the front of the speaker. I know it's not perfect, but the pictures (every single one I took) clearly show the problem. There's no denying it. Here are two better pictures.

I still need to contact UfffdiePalme about this. But I'm still not sure if I'll even keep the speakers.

I'm pleasantly surprised by how well the cardioid works. If you put your head between the speakers, behind the front, you only hear a muffled rumble from voices, etc. I've never experienced that with speakers before. You basically only hear the bass.

 

[Torin Krell]

I think latency is significant when a lag between input or video and audio becomes noticeable. I'd say 4.1ms would take a mighty fine sense of timing to notice. 20ms is said to be the threshold of discrimination, i.e. when two discrete sounds stop sounding like a single sound.

To put it another way, I think you could add 4.1ms delay to most (all?) people's systems and they would never know unless you told them.

The reason to be aware of each item adding latency in your monitoring system is that as the total latency created by all the devices add up to beyond 20ms it will usually become increasingly difficult to use it effectively to monitor instruments and especially vocalists. This was a more significant issue in the past (and perhaps at times not attended to properly) when DSP was first introduced in monitors and DAWs had far more latency than today. However even today, when practical I use analog parametric EQs instead of DSP driven ones to minimize latency in my monitor chain.

 

[BVK]

This is all true but isn't it an artifact of becoming adapted to non linear reproduction? If you are raised on b&w nautilus that will sound 'normal'.

If you were taking 10 new recruits through music production class 101 would you start them off with a non-linear system? Of course not. There's no reason to.

Of course. In the end, it's all about what you can get the job done with comfortably, and it isn't always the scientifically rational choice. Then again, back when I got my degree, all we had was different sets of Genelecs including the 8030s which were already deemed too flattering for mixing and unanalytical

But yeah, I'll leave the thread as my journey with the Orbits is ended. Thanks for the insights everyone, this forum has been a massive help and I really appreciate the plethora of no-nonsense measurement data here!

 

[Liftro]

Complete nonsense. You can't compare your picture to mine. I tried to align the photo precisely along the speaker axis and hold my phone parallel to the front of the speaker. I know it's not perfect, but the pictures (every single one I took) clearly show the problem. There's no denying it. Here are two better pictures.

I still need to contact UfffdiePalme about this. But I'm still not sure if I'll even keep the speakers.

I'm pleasantly surprised by how well the cardioid works. If you put your head between the speakers, behind the front, you only hear a muffled rumble from voices, etc. I've never experienced that with speakers before. You basically only hear the bass.

View attachment 513853
View attachment 513855

So the problem is only visual? You haven't complained about how they sound at any point.

 

[MrBlueSky4470]

I don't know if it's audible, or to what extent. I'm not sure if a simple measurement with REW in my living room (!) would reveal any obvious problems. Probably not.

I mean, they work. Doesn't mean they work as intended.

 

[olieb]

I'm not sure if a simple measurement with REW in my living room (!) would reveal any obvious problems. Probably not.

Well, you could measure in 50cm distance on axis (gated and as far away from boundaries as possible) and compare the two units in the same position.
If the frequency response (and the distortion) above 1kHz are identical/similar, then the effect would probably be more cosmetical.
Frequency response differences (on axis) will be a major reason for fuzzying the phantom center image.

 

[Audionaut]

I am incredibly glad that I am not a dealer for Audio Products.
Some nitpickers would really get on my nerves, and I would probably end up harming my own business with my responses to perceived problems rather than being as accommodating and friendly as the most dealers on ASR, for example.
So it's better for the customers.

 

[TimVG]

I don't know if it's audible, or to what extent. I'm not sure if a simple measurement with REW in my living room (!) would reveal any obvious problems. Probably not.

I mean, they work. Doesn't mean they work as intended.

Well luckily you've been offered an immediate swap. And since they want to deal with you directly it means they want to show this to production.
Mistakes happen, but it is the way that they are handled that matters most.

 

[JoeDiMEG]

Some photographers even have to take photos of Pseudo-Triaxes!

They smile mildly about coax photographers.

But it's a nerve-wracking job, these brave people die younger than they should.

https://www.me-geithain.de/en/assets/media/products/studio/RL933K/RL933K-Front_VS_V1.png