Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[DschayAge]

I would because I know the problem isn't with the gear, it's with the room. I'd figure out the correct spot and integrate it properly.

My original point was that different speakers aren't going to fix room problems. I was under the impression that the common suggestion here is to learn how your tools and room works so you don't have to spend more money chasing non-fixes, but maybe that has changed.

Yes, of course, you’re absolutely right.

I should have kept the speakers if I hadn’t had a Mini DSP.

Instead, I should have completely renovated my house, filled the wooden walls with concrete, and rebuilt all my rooms — right!

Especially since I also mentioned that I don’t have this problem as much with other speakers. And as I already said, I managed to fix it with the DSP.

So comments as unrealistic as yours don’t really concern me.

Of course my room isn’t ideal — otherwise I wouldn’t be having these acoustic problems.

But there are also other people here who aren’t necessarily planning to use these speakers in studio-optimized rooms.

So maybe one or two practical tips that someone could actually implement — someone who wouldn’t move house just for their speakers — would be more helpful instead of just throwing around generic phrases you’d find in a “What Do I Have to Do to Get Good Sound?” handbook.

 

[UffdiePalme]

Sooooo... I just got mine and I really have mixed feelings now and I'm also quite upset. I think they really have some quality issues. You might say they are minor, but to me they matter.

First thing that upset me while unpacking them was that they were covered with fingerprints. And yes, the packaging was original and unopened. I expect new things that I get to be flawless and not with fingerprints all over them. I was able to wipe them off, but the painting is also not very high quality. Not horrible, but it just seems a bit uneven.
Okay. Now the BAD thing. One speaker has the centering of the midrange/tweeter really off. I think you can see it in the picture. In reality it is way more obvious. Do they check their items before they pack them? This is obviously not acceptable.

But: They sound good. I just did some basic EQing and they sound nice. Very forward sound in your face (which I like), very detailed and clear. Nice transients, nice sound stage, voices sound great. Bass is punchy and precise inspite of my very basic adjustments. My Genelecs present everything kind of behind the speakers which sounds kind of distant. The Palmer punch everything in your face.

I like the first sound impression, but I'm actually really pissed about the quality.

Hey Bumblebee,

This does indeed look wrong and definitely outside our tolerances. I’m sorry to see that.

We would like to replace the speaker for you and get this one back to have a better understanding how this could happen.
Could you please write us a quick mail at [email protected]? The colleagues are informed and will take care of it.

All the best
Flo

 

[denork]

I guess they're not telling you that you're wrong, just that you're not used to their sound and need more time for your ears to adjust to it.

Hey Bumblebee,

This does indeed look wrong and definitely outside our tolerances. I’m sorry to see that.

We would like to replace the speaker for you and get this one back to have a better understanding how this could happen.
Could you please write us a quick mail at [email protected]? The colleagues are informed and will take care of it.

All the best
Flo

Damn, this is some great support and a great response, just for that reason alone I'm already tempted to buy a pair of Orbit 11s, I'm still waiting for more opinions and reviews.

 

[kemmler3D]

My opinion is you can't accept an off center tweeter with a coax... It may or may not really affect anything but it's contrary to the entire design principle. Chalk it up to early production run glitches and let's hope it's not too hard to get it replaced...

Post #1042 looks like things are going in the right direction IMO. Good to see them jump on it.

As I've said in other threads, don't worry about defect rate, because we can't know it. Worry about how the company responds when there is a defect, that's what really matters here.

Really, I’d return them. You can always get a new pair sent out. But allowing awful quality control to pass uncorrected just encourages the practice.

Yep, a good manufacturer wants to know about defective units so they can correct their processes... The worst scenario is a defective unit gets delivered, and the customer tells everyone except the company that could fix the problem...

I have no idea what margin of error they accept in quality control. Or did they just miss it?

Edit: The tweeter issue plus the fingerprints suggests to me that this unit wasn't really meant to be sold as new, and somehow sneaked back into the production units at the factory. After the painting step during normal production, you would probably expect glove handling. And QC should have caught the off-axis tweeter.

My theory is the factory DID catch it, they looked at it, tested it (hence the fingerprints), found it was working within normal parameters (using a single on-axis, fast sweep if I had to guess) and put it back in the box, intended as factory seconds, in-house demo units, or possibly for refurbishment... then ultimately someone simply put it on the wrong pallet and it got sold as new.

 

[Paul7777x]

In a forum that always places so much emphasis on measured values, perhaps one should first check the angle at which the photo was taken, which is being used as evidence here, before making such statements with absolute certainty.

Ordinarily I’d agree.

But it’s simply and obviously of centre.

And in a forum that places so much emphasis on measured values that is intolerable as the tweeter will not fire from the centre of the cone that is its waveguide.

 

[RT.]

Hey Bumblebee,

This does indeed look wrong and definitely outside our tolerances. I’m sorry to see that.

We would like to replace the speaker for you and get this one back to have a better understanding how this could happen.
Could you please write us a quick mail at [email protected]? The colleagues are informed and will take care of it.

All the best
Flo

That's what I call great service, which gives me an extra good feeling about the upcoming measurements. I'm seriously considering replacing my current small active monitors in my home theater. I just need an idea on how to solve the problem that, as far as I know, they don't have a standby function. The problem is that I already have a separate power outlet at each speaker position in my living room, so a "normal" master-slave power strip is not an option. I don't know if some kind of master-slave function can be installed in my switch cabinet in the basement with individual fuses for each outlet without incurring excessive costs. I've always dreamed of doing this sometime in the future with Genelec's 8331A, but they cost almost €2,100 each. That makes it really expensive for my 7.4.4 setup. At least too expensive for me. But with the Orbit 11, it might be affordable somehow. I'm very excited about the measurements, but given the proactive behavior of Palmer / Flo / @UffdiePalme, I have a damn good feeling about it.

 

[mariodorianc]

That's what I call great service, which gives me an extra good feeling about the upcoming measurements. I'm seriously considering replacing my current small active monitors in my home theater. I just need an idea on how to solve the problem that, as far as I know, they don't have a standby function. The problem is that I already have a separate power outlet at each speaker position in my living room, so a "normal" master-slave power strip is not an option. I don't know if some kind of master-slave function can be installed in my switch cabinet in the basement with individual fuses for each outlet without incurring excessive costs. I've always dreamed of doing this sometime in the future with Genelec's 8331A, but they cost almost €2,100 each. That makes it really expensive for my 7.4.4 setup. At least too expensive for me. But with the Orbit 11, it might be affordable somehow. I'm very excited about the measurements, but given the proactive behavior of Palmer / Flo / @UffdiePalme, I have a damn good feeling about it.

you can buy two wireless sockets for each speaker, and turn them on or off at the same time using a group in the phone app

 

[RT.]

@UffdiePalme, do you know if one of the above shown dealers I found on your homepage does have the Orbit 11 available and if they can be listened at in their showrooms?

 

[RT.]

you can buy two wireless sockets for each speaker, and turn them on or off at the same time using a group in the phone app

I do understand your idea but why two wireless sockets for each speaker?

 

[DSJR]

Believe me, I value the experience of a mastering engineer who's been doing the same thing for 17 years more than that of audio enthusiasts who test speakers in challenging environments. I don't think you need to say or justify anything else; it's your subjective opinion.

Having said that, a heck of a lot of Western European albums have been mastered on B&W Nautilus (and previous) 800 series speakers (is it really true that the ones sent to pro rooms are more neutral than the domestic models?) and come out okay generally.

If I'm able to continue with listening via speakers, in the future and in my current hearing-situation, I think I'd prefer a more 'outwardly explicit' sounding speaker, probably active as it does this better generally I feel, than a more genteel presentation where great effort has been taken to iron out every wrinkle using bucket-loads of DSP and so on... Mind you, the 'safer sounding' monitors discussed here, are arguably on a higher plane entirely from typical dealer-purchased domestic speakers a grand or two the pair...

 

[mariodorianc]

I do understand your idea but why two wireless sockets for each speaker?

i thought you have each speaker plugged in a separate socket, but if not a single wireless socket will do

 

[AudioJester]

A bit disappointing

Not really. Lots of people dont gel with the 8361a or KH150 etc, does not mean they are not exceptional speakers. Useage and personal preference will vary greatly.

The only truth will be the spinorama - thats the starting point, and then need to listen for yourself. The great thing about Amir and Erin's work is we get to correlate what we see in the graphs with what we hear in our own spaces.

@Purité Audio has experience with the best modern speakers around. When he says the Orbit11 is without fault, worth taking note

 

[RT.]

i thought you have each speaker plugged in a separate socket, but if not a single wireless socket will do

Yes, you understood correctly. I have connected each individual speaker to a separate power outlet in my living room. There is a power outlet at every physical location on my wall and ceiling. Therefore, I would probably only need one wireless power outlet per speaker. I need to find out if there are systems that allow me to operate eleven outlets, and I would also need eleven new brackets. So I really need to check if this is still possible from a budgetary point of view. It all adds up. Maybe I'll try a small stereo system in another room first, just for stereo listening. We'll see.

 

[Ogremic]

Yes, you understood correctly. I have connected each individual speaker to a separate power outlet in my living room. There is a power outlet at every physical location on my wall and ceiling. Therefore, I would probably only need one wireless power outlet per speaker. I need to find out if there are systems that allow me to operate eleven outlets, and I would also need eleven new brackets. So I really need to check if this is still possible from a budgetary point of view. It all adds up. Maybe I'll try a small stereo system in another room first, just for stereo listening. We'll see.

There are cheap wireless outlets that can be controlled from an app. I think you can put them all in a group or "room" and control from a single click instead of eleven separate ones. Something like this. I am using an equivalent system to power off my speakers because I'm annoyed by all the leds at night so I took care of them like this

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Socket-EIGHTREE-Current-Measurement-Control/dp/B0B74NSVF4?th=1

 

[RT.]

There are cheap wireless outlets that can be controlled from an app. I think you can put them all in a group or "room" and control from a single click instead of eleven separate ones. Something like this. I am using an equivalent system to power off my speakers because I'm annoyed by all the leds at night so I took care of them like this

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Socket-EIGHTREE-Current-Measurement-Control/dp/B0B74NSVF4?th=1

Thanks for sharing the link. This looks promising.

 

[Salt]

So, as we are now beyond discussing a colour of a ring, AND solved THE problem how to switch off an electric device ... there can nothing go wrong .

 

[BVK]

Having said that, a heck of a lot of Western European albums have been mastered on B&W Nautilus (and previous) 800 series speakers (is it really true that the ones sent to pro rooms are more neutral than the domestic models?) and come out okay generally.

If I'm able to continue with listening via speakers, in the future and in my current hearing-situation, I think I'd prefer a more 'outwardly explicit' sounding speaker, probably active as it does this better generally I feel, than a more genteel presentation where great effort has been taken to iron out every wrinkle using bucket-loads of DSP and so on... Mind you, the 'safer sounding' monitors discussed here, are arguably on a higher plane entirely from typical dealer-purchased domestic speakers a grand or two the pair...

No, we don’t use crappy speakers that are secretly made less crappy, that’s a silly urban legend that doesn’t make any sense. There’s been some talk every now and then that Abbey Road gets paid for using B&W, but honestly, if I got paid to use something that was so bad it would affect my work, I would end up losing money in the long run. I do have an endorsement deal on headphones but it doesn’t limit me from critiquing them if I want to and I wouldn’t endorse them if I didn’t want to use them anyway.

It is true, however, that a lot - if not most - of the albums generally considered audiophile quality were mastered on speakers that wouldn’t pass the ASR vibe check on paper. IIRC Ted Jensen of Sterling Sound fame worked on a pair of 800 series himself around the time he designed the late great Tom Coyne’s custom set, yet didn’t use them himself, and they’re both responsible for some of my favourite sounding albums of all time. Since then Jensen has migrated to ATC SCM110’s I think.

So yes, I essentially agree with you. Even if a speaker is used by a professional in critical listening (which in my opinion is somewhat different from ”recreational” listening), it doesn’t automatically make it a great speaker technically, and even if a speaker shines on most measurements, it still might not suit every working professional.

 

[kemmler3D]

Not really. Lots of people dont gel with the 8361a or KH150 etc, does not mean they are not exceptional speakers. Useage and personal preference will vary greatly.

The only truth will be the spinorama - thats the starting point, and then need to listen for yourself. The great thing about Amir and Erin's work is we get to correlate what we see in the graphs with what we hear in our own spaces.

@Purité Audio has experience with the best modern speakers around. When he says the Orbit11 is without fault, worth taking note

Was going to say something similar... if one pro doesn't happen to prefer them over other pro monitors, that doesn't mean they are objectively poor performers. You can find studio folk who think Genelec / Neumann / Adam / Kali / ATC are trash (or at least they really don't care for them) and prefer a different one in the list, or something else entirely. I think if you could somehow make a speaker that was objectively (in Spinorama terms) better than anything on the market by a wide margin, you would still not find that every professional preferred them to what they currently use.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

My question is more along the lines of whether these or, say, an ASCI minimonitor. would be more suitable in a smaller room for recreational listening in the mid-field (1.5-3 meters)?

 

[Purité Audio]

Just setting that comparison up.
Keith