Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[JoeDiMEG]

A bit disappointing

Since 2020 you dodge each and every bullet, Neo! ;-)

 

[BVK]

I also can see your point, I can also be very confident about a lot of things, but sometimes I change my mind and it's always healthy to allow yourself to be wrong.

Sorry guys, I don't know what else to say. I can be wrong just like the next guy. I'm not Bob Katz or anything, all I know is I've been doing this almost every single day for the last 17 years or so, used and tried a whole bunch of speakers, and if in two hours of testing a pair in my preferred environment I can recognize issues that would honestly hinder my work, I just can't spend money on them no matter how much I wanted to like them.

I think this is a bit weird. I've got both speakers here, in my room, I've A/B'd them and I shared my impressions and my reasons why I won't be keeping them, making it very clear this is only my subjective experience and that I'm not bashing on the Orbits, and people who - I assume - haven't even heard them yet are telling me I'm wrong.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Sorry guys, I don't know what else to say. I can be wrong just like the next guy. I'm not Bob Katz or anything, all I know is I've been doing this almost every single day for the last 17 years or so, used and tried a whole bunch of speakers, and if in two hours of testing a pair in my preferred environment I can recognize issues that would honestly hinder my work, I just can't spend money on them no matter how much I wanted to like them.

I think this is a bit weird. I've got both speakers here, in my room, I've A/B'd them and I shared my impressions and my reasons why I won't be keeping them, making it very clear this is only my subjective experience and that I'm not bashing on the Orbits, and people who - I assume - haven't even heard them yet are telling me I'm wrong.

I guess they're not telling you that you're wrong, just that you're not used to their sound and need more time for your ears to adjust to it.

 

[denork]

Sorry guys, I don't know what else to say. I can be wrong just like the next guy. I'm not Bob Katz or anything, all I know is I've been doing this almost every single day for the last 17 years or so, used and tried a whole bunch of speakers, and if in two hours of testing a pair in my preferred environment I can recognize issues that would honestly hinder my work, I just can't spend money on them no matter how much I wanted to like them.

I think this is a bit weird. I've got both speakers here, in my room, I've A/B'd them and I shared my impressions and my reasons why I won't be keeping them, making it very clear this is only my subjective experience and that I'm not bashing on the Orbits, and people who - I assume - haven't even heard them yet are telling me I'm wrong.

Believe me, I value the experience of a mastering engineer who's been doing the same thing for 17 years more than that of audio enthusiasts who test speakers in challenging environments. I don't think you need to say or justify anything else; it's your subjective opinion.

 

[TimVG]

I then fired up Dirac, made the measurements, re-measured with REW, did my usual adjustments to the target curve (+1,5dB shelf below 100Hz, -0,5dB at 2,4kHz as that's what usually works for me)

Just adding to the discussion, but I'm not a believer in target curves aboves 400-500Hz in most rooms, and any target below that will be quite speaker dependent, especially with a cardioid pattern (in this case to 250 (?) Hz), which behaves differently than a standard loudspeaker in terms of sound power.

 

[WootZee]

I do not know how to make myself "wait faster" for Amir's measurements of these speakers. )
These seem to tick all my checkboxes, for a fair amount of money.

I hope they figured out how to implement a concentric driver properly. Till now, I haven't heard or seen others that did it well besides Kef or Genelec...

 

[Puddingbuks]

I do not know how to make myself "wait faster" for Amir's measurements of these speakers. )
These seem to tick all my checkboxes, for a fair amount of money.

I hope they figured out how to implement a concentric driver properly. Till now, I haven't heard or seen others that did it well besides Kef or Genelec...

It would be quite an achievement to match genelec and kef with a first (?) concentric driver.

 

[Liftro]

Isn't it bound to affect the sound given that the mid-range cone acts as a waveguide for the tweeter?

It's possible, but I'd like to be sure. If the owner says they sound good, it shouldn't matter much, right? Otherwise, you'd notice something strange.

 

[Liftro]

Yeah, when coming from a already high bar like Genelec 2.1 calibrated the Orbits wont blow you away, that might come when upgrading from a lower quality system

Not to defend them, but if memory serves, when I disconnected the calibration on the Neumann KH120As, I wasn't impressed either. Turning on the room correction, from my listening position, was like emerging from a fog. Every detail came into focus. These comparisons should be fairer. It's just my two cents.

 

[GavriloD]

Without a doubt, we need a technical evaluation before going crazy. We need to understand what strengths and weaknesses are from a strictly technical perspective. This is where Amir comes in, Erin, too. I appreciate @BVK's views, but need more.

 

[WootZee]

Not to defend them, but if memory serves, when I disconnected the calibration on the Neumann KH120As, I wasn't impressed either. Turning on the room correction, from my listening position, was like emerging from a fog. Every detail came into focus. These comparisons should be fairer. It's just my two cents.

I would calibrate them using DIRAC... but I can only do that if there are no major problems with mids and highs...

 

[Liftro]

I would calibrate them using DIRAC... but I can only do that if there are no major problems with mids and highs...

I suppose Amirm test will clear up all our doubts.

 

[Liftro]

It's noticable enough for a speaker costing €8k/piece. I'm receiving my Orbit 11 pair tomorrow and will report back here.

I shouldn't compare apples to oranges, but I've seen cars with worse parts fit for 40k. I have no idea what margin of error they accept in quality control. Or did they just miss it? I hope to see more reviews to see how common this issue is.

 

[Audionaut]

The tweeter is clearly and obviously off centre.

In a forum that always places so much emphasis on measured values, perhaps one should first check the angle at which the photo was taken, which is being used as evidence here, before making such statements with absolute certainty.

 

[goat76]

That said, I mean they sound very different. Both good in their own way. For the Genelecs the sound stage is built behind the speaker, for the Palmer in front of them. With the Genelec voices are razor sharp between the speakers (sometimes unnaturally sharp). With the Palmer I don't get that strong center image. It's more like I hear the sound coming more from the speakers. But it sounds very direct and lifelike that way (to me).

I would like to see measurements of how the pair matching is. Could you perhaps take the time to measure the two Orbit speakers, one at a time, from the same spot in the room, without moving the microphone or changing the volume level?
How did you position the loudspeakers? Did you adjust the toe-in to get a more focused center image?

I'm used to loudspeakers with a very strong center image, where the phantom center is as distinct-sounding as if there were a physical center speaker in place. I would very much want to get to the bottom of why you don't get that with these Palmer speakers. For me, the quality of the phantom center is the "anchor" that sets the whole stereo image right, and if that isn't achievable, there must be something seriously wrong with either the loudspeakers or how they are set up in the listening room.

 

[Purité Audio]

There is no issue with the imaging, not with this pair at least, and as for lack of ‘detail’, I am struggling to hear that too.
Keith

 

[JoeDiMEG]

A wrong camera angle makes every coax look like a hoax:

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/media/2017/06/genelec-8331-sam-and-8341-sam-st.jpg

KR

 

[RT.]

In a forum that always places so much emphasis on measured values, perhaps one should first check the angle at which the photo was taken, which is being used as evidence here, before making such statements with absolute certainty.

I completely agree with what you say. By the way, regarding the shared image of the B&W speakers, and especially when you consider the price of these speakers, it's even worse with these B&W speakers. I agree that the highlighted fingerprints are not attractive, but this can happen in the start-up phase of a new product, even though I don't want to excuse it. But that shouldn't be a reason to send them back. As long as the speakers are technically ok, I think you can wipe that away. As for the spray painting you may have to accept a slightly lower quality compared to Genelec or Neumann, as they are much cheaper when you compare the Orbit 11 with the speaker models with the same values in the data sheets. And believe me, I'm a big friend of Genelec, as I mentioned in a previous post. Nevertheless, I would recommend waiting for the first measurements from @amirm.

 

[Torin Krell]

That said, I mean they sound very different. Both good in their own way. For the Genelecs the sound stage is built behind the speaker, for the Palmer in front of them. With the Genelec voices are razor sharp between the speakers (sometimes unnaturally sharp). With the Palmer I don't get that strong center image. It's more like I hear the sound coming more from the speakers. But it sounds very direct and lifelike that way (to me).

What do you guys think about the off-centered midrange/tweeter? Is that acceptable? I just think I would hate seeing that all the time. Once you know something like that, you always focus on it and see it. The gap in the 10 o'clock position is half the width of that in the 3 or 4 o'clock position.

The off center midrange/tweeter could also be due to unexpectedly rough handling in transit. I have no information over how securely Orbit 11 drivers are mounted (beyond seeing a sketch of the internal layout) nor how they were transported, however a significant drop even if a speaker is well packaged can potentially misalign speaker internals - especially in a new design that has not yet been fully "transit tested". Years ago when one of my Polk speakers was dropped it created a misalignment in the woofer voice coil to the point that the woofer could no longer move freely. Apparently the weight of the woofer magnet responding to inertia from the drop bent the woofer frame.

 

[Salt]

Just attempted to leave some fingerprints on the surface, without success. The matt and slightly rough texture prevents it. Maybe with some grease on the fingers...