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Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

I got them

I miss that they can power on with a signal and I find it annoying that the power light is turned on constantly. But so can live with those things.
Carefully cut black tape or something like acrilic poster paint or plastidip can allow you to tailor the size of light that shows. I do this for LEDs that are too bright and/or big.

The worst I saw was on a Hoover vacuum. Almost a centimetre wide and 3cm length, blinding green light. That one got reduced to a 0.5mm slit lol
 
Oh come on, I clearly did not put "singular" in quotes in my statement above and did not imply the word was used in the specification. I just added it for emphasis. By specifying "100 watt class D amplifier" with no "s" on the word "amplifier" the description is clearly misleadingly indicating that there is just one amplifier per monitor. The description is simple wrong and should be changed to avoid confusion. I am just offering feedback and encouragement to improve the description by specifying the number of amplifiers actually incorporated within each monitor and specifying each amplifier's peak and continuous output in watts. https://www.palmer-germany.com/en/series/orbit-series/32201/orbit-11?c=2147
it could be clearer and I think they should clarify this is their website specs. But it's been stated on multiple pages on this thread that it's not just one amp...
 
Oh come on, I clearly did not put "singular" in quotes in my statement above and did not imply the word was used in the specification. I just added it for emphasis. By specifying "100 watt class D amplifier" with no "s" on the word "amplifier" the description is clearly misleadingly indicating that there is just one amplifier per monitor. The description is simple wrong and should be changed to avoid confusion. I am just offering feedback and encouragement to improve the description by specifying the number of amplifiers actually incorporated within each monitor and specifying each amplifier's peak and continuous output in watts. https://www.palmer-germany.com/en/series/orbit-series/32201/orbit-11?c=2147
I agree that the information isn't very detailed, even in the manual. I wish all manufacturers were as specific as Neumann.
 
I got them yesterday to compare with my Dynaudio Lyd 48. Both are combined with a Dynaudio 9s subwoofer.

My listening space is suboptimal. No acoustic treatment and the speakers and sub are placed in an open bookcase. Listening distance is about 3.5 meters. You could argue that my observations are close to meaningless for other people.

They do not sound that different to my Dynaudios. Perhaps a tiny bit more stable and forgiving stereo image. Transient response is very good. Very detailed sound but so are the Dynaudios.

They do have some self noise but you need to get close to hear that. Same as the Dyns.

I miss that they can power on with a signal and I find it annoying that the power light is turned on constantly. But so can live with those things.

All in all, I would say they are 5 percent better in my space. But they are half the size of the Dyns, which are already small for 3 ways. And the retail price is lower than the Dyns.

View attachment 513339
Do you use any room correction system?
Would it be too much to ask if you could measure their own noise level at a distance of 1 meter? There are mobile apps for that. It's mainly to have a basic reference point.

**edit**

Now that I think about it, perhaps such a measurement wouldn't be very helpful in a home environment. I don't think the speakers' own noise would be loud enough at a distance of 1 meter to outweigh the background noise (neighbors, street, heating on, or computer noise)...please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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Do you use any room correction system?
Would it be too much to ask if you could measure their own noise level at a distance of 1 meter? There are mobile apps for that. It's mainly to have a basic reference point.

**edit**

Now that I think about it, perhaps such a measurement wouldn't be very helpful in a home environment. I don't think the speakers' own noise would be loud enough at a distance of 1 meter to outweigh the background noise (neighbors, street, heating on, or computer noise)...please correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes, I use IK Multimedia Arc Studio.

I can try the noise test at 1 meter distance later when I get home.
 
Carefully cut black tape or something like acrilic poster paint or plastidip can allow you to tailor the size of light that shows. I do this for LEDs that are too bright and/or big.

The worst I saw was on a Hoover vacuum. Almost a centimetre wide and 3cm length, blinding green light. That one got reduced to a 0.5mm slit lol
Thanks for the tip
 
View attachment 512475View attachment 512476
Not the original poster, but these images were provided above by the Palmer representative above. While there isn't any data on the compression/change in frequency response as the speaker is pushed, the severe sub frequency harmonic distortion makes me think that compression isn't too severe into the subbass, at the cost of likely having to deal with said severe harmonic distortion, particularly 3rd order, which is somewhat concerning. I would anticipate a sub to largely take care of this issue, since the issue only really becomes problematic sub 80hz, which is the typical frequency in which most default crossovers are at for most subs, which hopefully makes it easier to integrate with minimal issues from an output perspective.

As for the clipping indicator, the below text is pulled from the Palmer website, with the last sentence likely implying some form of clipping indicator at least, so that should be a thing




"Direct access, precise control

Top-mounted control panel for direct access to all essential functions - no need to reach behind the speaker
Structured menu for quick navigation through input selection, EQ settings and placement compensation
Arrow keys enable fast, precise value adjustments
Includes PAD control and a three-band EQ
Desk and Rear-Wall compensation presets for different speaker placements
80 Hz high-pass filter for additional low-frequency management
Analogue and AES3 input routing, including left, right and linked configurations
Front-facing LED shows operating status: orange for power, red for limiting"

Link: https://www.palmer-germany.com/en/listing/index/sCategory/5553
this looks market breaking
 
Yes, I use IK Multimedia Arc Studio.

I can try the noise test at 1 meter distance later when I get home.
If you have the time and inclination, could you upload screenshots from Arc Studio showing the Orbit response in your room and then the correction you applied? It would be interesting to see. Thanks anyway.
 
I got them yesterday to compare with my Dynaudio Lyd 48. Both are combined with a Dynaudio 9s subwoofer.

My listening space is suboptimal. No acoustic treatment and the speakers and sub are placed in an open bookcase. Listening distance is about 3.5 meters. You could argue that my observations are close to meaningless for other people.

They do not sound that different to my Dynaudios. Perhaps a tiny bit more stable and forgiving stereo image. Transient response is very good. Very detailed sound but so are the Dynaudios.

They do have some self noise but you need to get close to hear that. Same as the Dyns.

I miss that they can power on with a signal and I find it annoying that the power light is turned on constantly. But so can live with those things.

All in all, I would say they are 5 percent better in my space. But they are half the size of the Dyns, which are already small for 3 ways. And the retail price is lower than the Dyns.

View attachment 513339
Are you driving the digital or by the analog inputs? That the noise is same as with ther other speakers implies that it might be coming from upstream (if input is analog).
 
1000024526.jpg
They look very nice...By the way, where is the orange ring?
 
I got them yesterday to compare with my Dynaudio Lyd 48. Both are combined with a Dynaudio 9s subwoofer.

My listening space is suboptimal. No acoustic treatment and the speakers and sub are placed in an open bookcase. Listening distance is about 3.5 meters. You could argue that my observations are close to meaningless for other people.

They do not sound that different to my Dynaudios. Perhaps a tiny bit more stable and forgiving stereo image. Transient response is very good. Very detailed sound but so are the Dynaudios.

They do have some self noise but you need to get close to hear that. Same as the Dyns.

I miss that they can power on with a signal and I find it annoying that the power light is turned on constantly. But so can live with those things.

All in all, I would say they are 5 percent better in my space. But they are half the size of the Dyns, which are already small for 3 ways. And the retail price is lower than the Dyns.

View attachment 513339


Do you have the bottom slot overhanging the edge of the shelf?
 
I got them yesterday to compare with my Dynaudio Lyd 48. Both are combined with a Dynaudio 9s subwoofer.

My listening space is suboptimal. No acoustic treatment and the speakers and sub are placed in an open bookcase. Listening distance is about 3.5 meters. You could argue that my observations are close to meaningless for other people.

They do not sound that different to my Dynaudios. Perhaps a tiny bit more stable and forgiving stereo image. Transient response is very good. Very detailed sound but so are the Dynaudios.

They do have some self noise but you need to get close to hear that. Same as the Dyns.

I miss that they can power on with a signal and I find it annoying that the power light is turned on constantly. But so can live with those things.

All in all, I would say they are 5 percent better in my space. But they are half the size of the Dyns, which are already small for 3 ways. And the retail price is lower than the Dyns.

View attachment 513339
Very nice looking speakers, especially in the context. I knew the physical measurements but haven't realised how small they are. I was eyeing the Dynaudio 48s, but if they sound similar, with better low end, they might be my next speakers. Oh, and the orange ring is a nothingburger.
 
I compared them to my Adam A77X (which were in the same price range at the time). The Palmer speakers are poorly positioned because they sit above the Adams, so the tweeter isn't at ear level when I'm sitting. I switch between sitting and standing.

This is my first experience with coaxial speakers, and I've only ever used Presonus Eris E8s and Adam A77Xs in my home studio.

I have some acoustic treatment (diffuser panels and acoustic curtains). From 200Hz, I'm getting around 300ms on the RT60.

The Palmer speakers look high-quality with their aluminum enclosures. The packaging is neat; each speaker is in a faux-fabric bag.

The display is quite easy to use, accessible, and intuitive.

My first impression is that the bass is quite impressive; I think some people won't even need a subwoofer with them.

There was even too much of it, so I activated the option based on the distance from the back wall, which significantly reduced the problem.

I'm finally discovering the advantages of coaxial speakers. The sound distribution is more even outside the sweet spot, and there's less of a feeling of one speaker being too loud compared to another depending on the distance of your ears outside the sweet spot (if you're too far to the left speaker, for example, the right one is less audible, almost as if you were in mono).

I normally use the Trinnov Nova, but in these two tests, the correction was off. I'm connected directly to the Palmer speakers via AES.

I tested them on different tracks, but here's what I can say about these two:

- Hotel California live by the Eagles (acoustic version):
On the Palmer speakers, the midrange of the acoustic guitars comes through clearly; you can feel the guitar's acoustic character, the attack of the strings is present, and the bass drum reverb is clearly audible.

On the Adam speakers, the acoustic guitars lack body, sounding anemic, like when you go from a recording of an acoustic guitar with microphones positioned in front of the guitarist to one with piezo microphones.

- Battle Drums by Joe Hisaishi (which, for me, is a good test for stereo and reverb):
On the Palmer speakers, you can hear the impact of the percussion very clearly, and the reverb is precise; the high frequencies around the three-quarter mark of the song remain pleasant.
On the Adam speakers, the percussion sounds soft and the reverb fades quickly; the high frequencies around the three-quarter mark become aggressive as the volume increases.

The Adam speakers sound brighter (almost acidic compared to the Adam speakers), with a lack of presence in the lower midrange.

The Palmer speakers without correction are closer to the sound of the Adam speakers with Trinnov correction enabled, in that the center channel is very present and the stereo information is clear.

If I correct both speakers using Trinnov (there are two sealed subwoofers with the two speakers, so they have the same operating range):

- the Palmer speakers are still ahead, the sound quality improves and becomes much more precise, and the high frequencies gain clarity. The center channel is well integrated with the rest of the stereo image (as is the case with Trinnov off). This can be appreciated on an album like Diana Krall's *Love Scenes*, where the double bass and vocals blend perfectly. There's very little phase correction; they seem quite linear. The impulse response is already decent without any correction.

While the Adam speakers have their main weaknesses addressed, they still fall short of the Palmer speakers due to a lack of detail and dynamics. The center seems to have a mind of its own and struggles to connect with the rest of the stereo image; this might be due to the AMT technology, which thickens the sound in the upper frequencies. There's a phase shift around 2kHz. The impulse response needs correction; it dips too low at the beginning. The Trinnov can correct both.

For me, the Palmer speakers are convincing; we'll see how they perform in the long run. I wanted to get rid of the Adam speakers, which weren't working for me. I think this upgrade is a significant improvement, and the price-to-performance ratio is good.

As mentioned, I haven't tested Genelec, Kali or other coaxial type speakers, but I could recommend them for those who don't want to use a subwoofer, since they easily go down to 25Hz, which is quite rare in speakers of this size and price.

I've added screenshots of the Trinnov Nova measurement (I remind you that the Palmer speakers are not at ear level, hence the reduced treble I imagine).
 

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I compared them to my Adam A77X (which were in the same price range at the time). The Palmer speakers are poorly positioned because they sit above the Adams, so the tweeter isn't at ear level when I'm sitting. I switch between sitting and standing.

This is my first experience with coaxial speakers, and I've only ever used Presonus Eris E8s and Adam A77Xs in my home studio.

I have some acoustic treatment (diffuser panels and acoustic curtains). From 200Hz, I'm getting around 300ms on the RT60.

The Palmer speakers look high-quality with their aluminum enclosures. The packaging is neat; each speaker is in a faux-fabric bag.

The display is quite easy to use, accessible, and intuitive.

My first impression is that the bass is quite impressive; I think some people won't even need a subwoofer with them.

There was even too much of it, so I activated the option based on the distance from the back wall, which significantly reduced the problem.

I'm finally discovering the advantages of coaxial speakers. The sound distribution is more even outside the sweet spot, and there's less of a feeling of one speaker being too loud compared to another depending on the distance of your ears outside the sweet spot (if you're too far to the left speaker, for example, the right one is less audible, almost as if you were in mono).

I normally use the Trinnov Nova, but in these two tests, the correction was off. I'm connected directly to the Palmer speakers via AES.

I tested them on different tracks, but here's what I can say about these two:

- Hotel California live by the Eagles (acoustic version):
On the Palmer speakers, the midrange of the acoustic guitars comes through clearly; you can feel the guitar's acoustic character, the attack of the strings is present, and the bass drum reverb is clearly audible.

On the Adam speakers, the acoustic guitars lack body, sounding anemic, like when you go from a recording of an acoustic guitar with microphones positioned in front of the guitarist to one with piezo microphones.

- Battle Drums by Joe Hisaishi (which, for me, is a good test for stereo and reverb):
On the Palmer speakers, you can hear the impact of the percussion very clearly, and the reverb is precise; the high frequencies around the three-quarter mark of the song remain pleasant. On the Adam speakers, the percussion sounds soft and the reverb fades quickly; the high frequencies around the three-quarter mark become aggressive as the volume increases.

The Adam speakers sound brighter (almost acidic compared to the Adam speakers), with a lack of presence in the lower midrange.

The Palmer speakers without correction are closer to the sound of the Adam speakers with Trinnov correction enabled, in that the center channel is very present and the stereo information is clear.

If I correct both speakers using Trinnov (there are two sealed subwoofers with the two speakers, so they have the same operating range):

- the Palmer speakers are still ahead, the sound quality improves and becomes much more precise, and the high frequencies gain clarity. The center channel is well integrated with the rest of the stereo image (as is the case with Trinnov off). This can be appreciated on an album like Diana Krall's *Love Scenes*, where the double bass and vocals blend perfectly. There's very little phase correction; they seem quite linear. The impulse response is already decent without any correction.

While the Adam speakers have their main weaknesses addressed, they still fall short of the Palmer speakers due to a lack of detail and dynamics. The center seems to have a mind of its own and struggles to connect with the rest of the stereo image; this might be due to the AMT technology, which thickens the sound in the upper frequencies.

There's a phase shift around 2kHz. The impulse response needs correction; it dips too low at the beginning. The Trinnov can correct both.

For me, the Palmer speakers are convincing; we'll see how they perform in the long run. I wanted to get rid of the Adam speakers, which weren't working for me. I think this upgrade is a significant improvement, and the price-to-performance ratio is good.

As mentioned, I haven't tested Genelec, Kali or other coaxial type speakers, but I could recommend them for those who don't want to use a subwoofer, since they easily go down to 25Hz, which is quite rare in speakers of this size and price.

I've added screenshots of the Trinnov Nova measurement (I remind you that the Palmer speakers are not at ear level, hence the reduced treble I imagine).
Thank you for this detailed review, sounds very promising!
 
Oh come on, I clearly did not put "singular" in quotes in my statement above and did not imply the word was used in the specification. I just added it for emphasis. By specifying "100 watt class D amplifier" with no "s" on the word "amplifier" the description is clearly misleadingly indicating that there is just one amplifier per monitor. The description is simple wrong and should be changed to avoid confusion. I am just offering feedback and encouragement to improve the description by specifying the number of amplifiers actually incorporated within each monitor and specifying each amplifier's peak and continuous output in watts. https://www.palmer-germany.com/en/series/orbit-series/32201/orbit-11?c=2147
I read it as you did imply it, but I don't blame you as their specs are vague. Anyway, let's not argue over it as I think you're side of the arguement is stronger.
Palmer should update their specs ASAP as they are underselling their product and allowing negative PR to generate.
 
I've had an Orbit 11 since yesterday. Previously Dynaudio LYD 7s with a sub (9S). The difference in stereo imaging and detail is significant. Sub is definitely no longer needed and since I always had issues with it in the room (acoustically treated studio) now the low bass is very well audible, "fast"and clear. I'd wanted to buy coaxial monitors for a long time because they offer a much wider sweet spot compared to the LYD 7s which are great but even a slight head movement changes the music perception a lot. The only downside for now is no auto-off feature and the front LED can't be turned off, had to cover it with white tape to dim it.

One more thing regarding the comparison to the LYD 7 is that titanium tweeter presents the highs a bit differently and they a sound a little bit nicer on the Dynaudio but maybe it's just a matter of getting used to it. I'm leaving the LFE to serve only as LFE for film post work and LYDs are going for sale or to my bedroom.
 

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