Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[Liftro]

This absolutely.

If a speaker doesn’t ‘fit’ the room, keeping it is absurd.

Also, not having DSP room correction of some decent type in the modern hifi world is equally so.

Well, I think the issue is more complicated than that. Sometimes you have to accept what you have and learn to use it... as long as it's not 1000w multimedia speakers for 14.99

 

[Liftro]

I have an academic interest in the Palmer because, unusually, I wouldn't trust myself to build these speakers in a similar form myself—and if I did, they would probably be just as expensive, if not more so, without even factoring in the labor.

Normally, I select the appropriate drivers, calculate the enclosure, activate it with a Hypex plate amplifier, measure it with REW, and then tune it via Hypex DSP and PEQ.

I can't manage the die-cast enclosure, such a low cutoff frequency with this small enclosure and impulse compensation with two 8-inch woofers and a coaxial speaker on the front – difficult.
Besides, I've never worked with FIR filters before.
So yes, I'm interested, and I'm looking forward to my own listening experience.

And why not? Is it really that difficult to design and manufacture a similar speaker yourself (I understand that the aluminum casing is indeed complicated to fabricate in a home workshop) without significantly exceeding the original cost, while still meeting Palmer's specifications? I ask this out of complete ignorance on the subject. I'm a guy who enjoys DIY projects, but I've never designed and manufactured speakers, although I'd like to someday, even if it's just a portable Bluetooth speaker.

 

[3125b]

Is it really that difficult to design and manufacture a similar speaker yourself

This would probably be an impossible speaker to DIY.
You can't make an aluminium encosure, you'd have to source a comparable coaxial driver, comparable amp and control module, replicate the cardioid design and fit all that in a format this compact.
It can obviously be made in large numbers in a factory (by a well equipped and experienced OEM, not just some backyard sweatshop) for a reasonable price, but that's very different from making one pair in your garage.
By the time you'd have found someone to draw, cast, machine and powder coat two custom enclosures of sufficient quality you'd have spent more than on a pair of these speakers. Just the cost of the casting dies is about the price of a car.
There's a reason most speakers are made from glued sheets of MDF.

 

[Scrivs]

I’d like to see anyone “DIY” the requisite aluminum enclosure

 

[Ktacos]

This would probably be an impossible speaker to DIY.
You can't make an aluminium encosure, you'd have to source a comparable coaxial driver, comparable amp and control module, replicate the cardioid design and fit all that in a format this compact.
It can obviously be made in large numbers in a factory (by a well equipped and experienced OEM, not just some backyard sweatshop) for a reasonable price, but that's very different from making one pair in your garage.
By the time you'd have found someone to draw, cast, machine and powder coat two custom enclosures of sufficient quality you'd have spent more than on a pair of these speakers. Just the cost of the casting dies would get you way beyond, actually.

Not impossible at all to DIY. We already have cardioid coaxial projects in the DIY space, and some users have achieved cardioid response on par with what Kii is doing. Some folks here have done aluminum cabinets as well. Trying to match costs though is always a losing game in DIY.

I think you maybe underestimate the DIY community. If a company can build it, DIY'rs will figure out how they did it and make one themselves at much higher cost and labor.

 

[Ktacos]

I’d like to see anyone “DIY” the requisite aluminum enclosure

This guy made some for this speaker.

DIY Aluminum Enclosure Speaker (CA5) Building Guide

This guide explains how to build a speaker with an aluminum enclosure. I designed the speaker using the waveguide for the SB26ADC made by @augerpro . Thanks to @augerpro for releasing all the drawings so that I could design the speaker. I hope this guide can inspire people who want to design...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Torin Krell]

Pardon if I missed this already being mentioned, however apparently one of the cost saving design elements of the Palmer Orbit 11 monitor is that it is not fully active. It would actually be more accurate to describe it as powered with some additional features since it has just one amplifier (400 watts continuous, 1000 watts peak). In this configuration crossovers are apparently placed after the amplification stage unlike the fully active Genelec and Neumann monitors, that many in this thread are using here as standards for comparison.

 

[Ktacos]

Pardon if I missed this already being mentioned, however apparently one of the cost saving design elements of the Palmer Orbit 11 monitor is that it is not fully active. It would actually be more accurate to describe it as powered with some additional features since it has just one amplifier (400 watts continuous, 1000 watts peak). In this configuration crossovers are apparently placed after the amplification stage unlike the fully active Genelec and Neumann monitors, that many in this thread are using here as standards for comparison.

This speaker is most certainly running DSP for it's filtering as I don't believe you can achieve cardioid response and the linearity shown with passive filtering. I don't even think there's room for passive components inside the speaker, not to mention it wouldn't really save any costs but likely increase them.

That amp rating is for the whole speaker.

 

[Ratterbass]

Pardon if I missed this already being mentioned, however apparently one of the cost saving design elements of the Palmer Orbit 11 monitor is that it is not fully active. It would actually be more accurate to describe it as powered with some additional features since it has just one amplifier (400 watts continuous, 1000 watts peak). In this configuration crossovers are apparently placed after the amplification stage unlike the fully active Genelec and Neumann monitors, that many in this thread are using here as standards for comparison.

This speaker has three amps. 500W for bass and 250 for each mid and treble.

 

[Bwaslo]

Pardon if I missed this already being mentioned, however apparently one of the cost saving design elements of the Palmer Orbit 11 monitor is that it is not fully active. It would actually be more accurate to describe it as powered with some additional features since it has just one amplifier (400 watts continuous, 1000 watts peak). In this configuration crossovers are apparently placed after the amplification stage unlike the fully active Genelec and Neumann monitors, that many in this thread are using here as standards for comparison.

No, the manufacturer has stated there are three amplifiers in the box, 1x200Wrms and 2x100Wrms

 

[Matt_Holland]

Pardon if I missed this already being mentioned, however apparently one of the cost saving design elements of the Palmer Orbit 11 monitor is that it is not fully active. It would actually be more accurate to describe it as powered with some additional features since it has just one amplifier (400 watts continuous, 1000 watts peak). In this configuration crossovers are apparently placed after the amplification stage unlike the fully active Genelec and Neumann monitors, that many in this thread are using here as standards for comparison.

This misinformation seems to be going around the internet. No doubt to make people doubt the value of the product.

 

[Mort]

This misinformation seems to be going around the internet. No doubt to make people doubt the value of the product.

The specs should break out each amplifier. I thought the same thing based on your sheet.

 

[Trinkle]

@DschayAge Could you tell us which model of minidsp you used to tame down the Orbit 11s ?
A few reviews have mentioned it has a bit of a bump in the midrange (probably in the 1K region) did you feel that ?

 

[Torin Krell]

This misinformation seems to be going around the internet. No doubt to make people doubt the value of the product.

This "misinformation" will then need to be corrected on the Palmer Orbit 11 product page where it clearly lists within the specifications a singular "1000 watt class D amplifier": https://www.palmer-germany.com/en/series/orbit-series/32201/orbit-11?c=2147

 

[kemmler3D]

This would probably be an impossible speaker to DIY.
You can't make an aluminium encosure, you'd have to source a comparable coaxial driver, comparable amp and control module, replicate the cardioid design and fit all that in a format this compact.
It can obviously be made in large numbers in a factory (by a well equipped and experienced OEM, not just some backyard sweatshop) for a reasonable price, but that's very different from making one pair in your garage.
By the time you'd have found someone to draw, cast, machine and powder coat two custom enclosures of sufficient quality you'd have spent more than on a pair of these speakers. Just the cost of the casting dies is about the price of a car.
There's a reason most speakers are made from glued sheets of MDF.

You could get one-off aluminum housings CNC'd by a machine shop if you have the CAD skills, but that would still probably cost around what the full Orbit speakers cost and that would be unfinished, raw aluminum with nothing inside.

If you really know what you're doing, I think you CAN, in principle, DIY a speaker like this, but it would not be easy, and as you say it would cost a lot more than these do.

I think if you know enough to DIY these speakers... you know enough to not spend your time replicating something you can buy for less.

I’d like to see anyone “DIY” the requisite aluminum enclosure

Not a crazy ask if you have good CAD skills and access to a CNC mill. At my old co-working space, it would have been totally achievable. For most people at home... yeah not so much.

 

[Liftro]

Pardon if I missed this already being mentioned, however apparently one of the cost saving design elements of the Palmer Orbit 11 monitor is that it is not fully active. It would actually be more accurate to describe it as powered with some additional features since it has just one amplifier (400 watts continuous, 1000 watts peak). In this configuration crossovers are apparently placed after the amplification stage unlike the fully active Genelec and Neumann monitors, that many in this thread are using here as standards for comparison.

Said by @UffdiePalme:

1. Yes. 2x 250W, 1x 500W.

 

[Bwaslo]

Said by @UffdiePalme:

1. Yes. 2x 250W, 1x 500W.

*Peak* power. He said rms total is 400W.

 

[mupersan82]

I got them yesterday to compare with my Dynaudio Lyd 48. Both are combined with a Dynaudio 9s subwoofer.

My listening space is suboptimal. No acoustic treatment and the speakers and sub are placed in an open bookcase. Listening distance is about 3.5 meters. You could argue that my observations are close to meaningless for other people.

They do not sound that different to my Dynaudios. Perhaps a tiny bit more stable and forgiving stereo image. Transient response is very good. Very detailed sound but so are the Dynaudios.

They do have some self noise but you need to get close to hear that. Same as the Dyns.

I miss that they can power on with a signal and I find it annoying that the power light is turned on constantly. But so can live with those things.

All in all, I would say they are 5 percent better in my space. But they are half the size of the Dyns, which are already small for 3 ways. And the retail price is lower than the Dyns.

 

[Matt_Holland]

This "misinformation" will then need to be corrected on the Palmer Orbit 11 product page where it clearly lists within the specifications a singular "1000 watt class D amplifier": https://www.palmer-germany.com/en/series/orbit-series/32201/orbit-11?c=2147

I agree it’s a bit vague, but it doesn’t say “singular”

 

[Torin Krell]

I agree it’s a bit vague, but it doesn’t say “singular”

Oh come on, I clearly did not put "singular" in quotes in my statement above and did not imply the word was used in the specification. I just added it for emphasis. By specifying "100 watt class D amplifier" with no "s" on the word "amplifier" the description is clearly misleadingly indicating that there is just one amplifier per monitor. The description is simple wrong and should be changed to avoid confusion. I am just offering feedback and encouragement to improve the description by specifying the number of amplifiers actually incorporated within each monitor and specifying each amplifier's peak and continuous output in watts. https://www.palmer-germany.com/en/series/orbit-series/32201/orbit-11?c=2147