Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[Pearljam5000]

I'm waiting for Amir's review then I'll make a decision

 

[AudioJester]

I'm waiting for Amir's review then I'll make a decision

For real?

What are your measurement criteria for a purchase?

 

[Liftro]

For real?

What are your measurement criteria for a purchase?

Flat on axis, flat on wallet

 

[Ratterbass]

First, opposing EQ and FIR doesn’t make sense.

It makes sense in a way that refers to real world application equalizers as found in typical HiFi equipment. I am not aware of (parametric) EQs that use FIR, it's all IIR.
FIR isn't usually found in user adjustable EQs. Of course, room correction software calculates FIR filters but my point was making a distinction between users making manual corrections via (IIR) filters vs. using FIR tuning for a speaker/room.

You are right of course when you say that technically FIR is "just" EQ as well, but when talking about EQ we usually don't refer to FIR filters, but to IIR.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

For real?

What are your measurement criteria for a purchase?

it's not totally crazy to wait for measurements from a third party rather than uncritically trusting the manufacturer, is it?

 

[BeeKay]

And then there are some who elevate re/searching for new loudspeakers to a formerly totally unknown new form of art. A Ground-hog Day type of experience. Right on the brink to a running gag.

 

[pat355]

And then there are some who elevate re/searching for new loudspeakers to a formerly totally unknown new form of art. A Ground-hog Day type of experience. Right on the brink to a running gag.

“It’s the journey that matters bla-bla-bla”

 

[AudioJester]

it's not totally crazy to wait for measurements from a third party rather than uncritically trusting the manufacturer, is it?

What?? Who said it was??

 

[Breeze98]

And of course the speaker’s low‑frequency extension affects how it excites room modes. Pretending otherwise is unrealistic. Of course, all full‑range loudspeakers will run into this issue. The difference is that they’re usually very expensive and therefore mostly used in professional setups with proper treatment, not in bedroom studios. That’s exactly why the Palmer Orbit 11 may create challenges that are far less common in typical home environments.

Applying a high‑pass filter is not consequence‑free either—especially if you do it with a FIR high pass filter, because you’re adding significant latency just to remove bass you don’t need. The theoretical minimum is already around 12.5 ms to high‑pass at 40 Hz at 96 kHz, and that’s with minimal margin. You end up with around 20 ms latency wich is too much to monitor when recording any instrument. On top of that, a speaker designed to go very low usually makes trade‑offs elsewhere—heavier moving mass, different motor design, etc.—which inevitably affects how it behaves higher up.

None of this is a deal‑breaker. The speaker still looks extremely compelling in many respects. But it’s simply not obvious that a full‑range monitor will behave well in a domestic room, and buying one without measuring the room first is risky. You may not be able to take advantage of the extended low end at all, or worse, it may create more problems than it solves.

@Oboreal you may well have a point.

The deepest bass foundation I’ve ever heard from a bookshelf speaker!
My colleague walked over to my sub three times to check whether it was actually turned on… (ELAC 2070.2)
The precision, the punch — incredible.

Cons:

• Bass is hard to tame (at least in my room)
• Without the miniDSP with Dirac Live, I would have returned them

 

[Ktacos]

Wanting to return a speaker because your room has bass issues is, strange... Especially when it appears the user had some form of EQ to manage room issues.

 

[staticV3]

Wanting to return a speaker because your room has bass issues is, strange... Especially when it appears the user had some form of EQ to manage room issues.

You're kind of twisting his words there.

It's not like he wanted to return the speakers despite having a way to manage room issues.

He decided to keep the speakers specifically because he had a way to manage room issues.

IMO that's totally normal. If I had no way of taming room modes, and I had a nasty mode at 50Hz or something, then I'd likely rather get a speaker that rolls off sooner and doesn't excite said mode, even if I had to sacrifice LFX.

 

[dfuller]

For real?

What are your measurement criteria for a purchase?

He's never actually going to buy anything. He's been in analysis paralysis for close to 5 years.

 

[Oboreal]

It makes sense in a way that refers to real world application equalizers as found in typical HiFi equipment. I am not aware of (parametric) EQs that use FIR, it's all IIR.
FIR isn't usually found in user adjustable EQs. Of course, room correction software calculates FIR filters but my point was making a distinction between users making manual corrections via (IIR) filters vs. using FIR tuning for a speaker/room.

You are right of course when you say that technically FIR is "just" EQ as well, but when talking about EQ we usually don't refer to FIR filters, but to IIR.

Okay, I understand your point better now if FIR filters are rarely used in Hi‑Fi. Coming from a studio‑oriented perspective, things feel quite different to me, because most parametric EQs used in music production — in VST form (FabFilter Pro‑Q, iZotope Ozone EQ, Sonible SmartEQ, or even the stock EQs in DAWs like Ableton, Logic, Pro Tools, etc.) — offer FIR, IIR, or mixed modes for each EQ band.

So for me, as for many audio engineers, the filter type is something I choose regularly whenever I’m not satisfied with the result I get from the default filtering. Typically, that happens when I hear resonances or artifacts introduced by the filter that don’t match what I’m aiming for.

 

[Liftro]

“It’s the journey that matters bla-bla-bla”

And then there are some who elevate re/searching for new loudspeakers to a formerly totally unknown new form of art. A Ground-hog Day type of experience. Right on the brink to a running gag.

They're on a quest for the perfect sound that only exists in their heads. Once they've spent a fortune on speakers, they're always looking and snooping around to see if there's anything better. It's a rabbit hole, a spiral of madness. I've been there on a smaller budget, and it's not worth wasting time and energy. These days, I'm happy with the best my wallet allows.

 

[Ciobi69]

He's never actually going to buy anything. He's been in analysis paralysis for close to 5 years.

Well I changed like 10 speakers and wasted some money , I don’t know which one is better haha

 

[Paul7777x]

You're kind of twisting his words there.

It's not like he wanted to return the speakers despite having a way to manage room issues.

He decided to keep the speakers specifically because he had a way to manage room issues.

IMO that's totally normal. If I had no way of taming room modes, and I had a nasty mode at 50Hz or something, then I'd likely rather get a speaker that rolls off sooner and doesn't excite said mode, even if I had to sacrifice LFX.

This absolutely.

If a speaker doesn’t ‘fit’ the room, keeping it is absurd.

Also, not having DSP room correction of some decent type in the modern hifi world is equally so.

 

[Audionaut]

I have an academic interest in the Palmer because, unusually, I wouldn't trust myself to build these speakers in a similar form myself—and if I did, they would probably be just as expensive, if not more so, without even factoring in the labor.

Normally, I select the appropriate drivers, calculate the enclosure, activate it with a Hypex plate amplifier, measure it with REW, and then tune it via Hypex DSP and PEQ.

I can't manage the die-cast enclosure, such a low cutoff frequency with this small enclosure and impulse compensation with two 8-inch woofers and a coaxial speaker on the front – difficult.
Besides, I've never worked with FIR filters before.
So yes, I'm interested, and I'm looking forward to my own listening experience.

 

[Salt]

I have an academic interest in the Palmer because, unusually, I wouldn't trust myself to build these speakers in a similar form myself—and if I did, they would probably be just as expensive, if not more so, without even factoring in the labor.

Normally, I select the appropriate drivers, calculate the enclosure, activate it with a Hypex plate amplifier, measure it with REW, and then tune it via Hypex DSP and PEQ.

I can't manage the die-cast enclosure, such a low cutoff frequency with this small enclosure and impulse compensation with two 8-inch woofers and a coaxial speaker on the front – difficult.
Besides, I've never worked with FIR filters before.
So yes, I'm interested, and I'm looking forward to my own listening experience.

It's not that far from NRW to Lower Saxony ..
Just PM

 

[Bwaslo]

Seems like a few other ASR readers in Europe must have received Orbit 11s by now? Any more feedback (subjective or objective)?

 

[Liftro]

Well I changed like 10 speakers and wasted some money , I don’t know which one is better haha

At least you've experienced something, and that's what you take away from it. The problem is that some people take it to extremes, both not buying and buying