Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[Mort]

This is one combined 1000w amp for all drivers, yes? Crossover will be after the amp then presumably?

 

[amirm]

This is one combined 1000w amp for all drivers, yes? Crossover will be after the amp then presumably?

No. It has active DSP crossover with individual amps driving each component. The kind you are talking about only appears in ultra cheap desktop speakers and very low end monitors.

 

[dickiefunk]

No. It has active DSP crossover with individual amps driving each component. The kind you are talking about only appears in ultra cheap desktop speakers and very low end monitors.

Do you know how many amplifiers and what the spec of each of these are that are driving each individual driver?

 

[Breeze98]

Do you know how many amplifiers and what the spec of each of these are that are driving each individual driver?

2x 250W, 1x 500W, as mentioned by the Palmer rep. Class D...

 

[kemmler3D]

No matter if Palmer gets 500 or 600€ after dealer percentage, that's still not taking a profit on 3 drivers this capable, a solid aluminum enclosure, potent integrated amplifier and DSP, a rigging system, and so forth.

This is obviously a marketing strategy to boost the brand, with properly priced products to follow later.

Nothing wrong with that, just something to be aware of. Lucky those who are taking advantage while the deal is on.

IMO if they get €600 in gross margin they could be making money. Driver cost for OEMs is much, much lower than it is for consumers. And as I understand it, this is already a big audio business but they just didn't have a monitor line before now. That would put them in a position to buy or manufacture parts at a favorable cost even for a new product line, and maybe even sell decent quantities up front even for a new line. Quantity is really everything when it comes to managing the cost of parts and manufacturing, so compared to a brand like Ascilab or Audio First, an existing, larger business can do things with cost and pricing that are simply out of the question for smaller / newer brands.

I think it's quite possible they're deliberately taking less margin than normal so they can make a splash in the monitor market, but I don't think it's likely they're losing money.

 

[goat76]

A proper protocol would be to perform a defined task, a mix, and have it produced with these speakers and another pair. Then have a panel evaluate them on whatever target they think is proper (another can of warms).

Mixing a song on a pair of speakers and then mixing the same song on another pair of speakers wouldn’t work, well, unless the mixing engineer has a total memory loss in the time between making those two mixes. The mixing engineer would have learned too much about the mix for his first attempt, which would give him a “head start” for his second attempt that could lead him to either a better mix, or even make it worse second guessing his previous decisions. The better mix of the two attempts will likely, in the end, be the better sounding mix on both pair of loudspeakers.

 

[Honken]

Ah yes, definitely tapered Thanks for the correction @Emulator II!

Looks like the woofers are mounted at an angle of 177° so a 3° offset, which would mean it will vibrate about 3% as much as an equivalent single woofer @Honken

That image was indeed what I was thinking of, @Emulator II.

But interesting, good to know that the opposing force effect still is effectively... effective then, thanks @staticV3.

But then the question, at least for me becomes, why do that? Is the radiation pattern perhaps more agreeable when mounted this way, or is it perhaps purely a aesthetic choice?

 

[staticV3]

But then the question, at least for me becomes, why do that? Is the radiation pattern perhaps more agreeable when mounted this way, or is it perhaps purely a aesthetic choice?

Pretty sure the taper is there just to get the Coax drive unit nested as close as possible to the woofer magnets.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

For professional mastering work, the Ultra is likely a suboptimal solution.

Why's that?

 

[staticV3]

Why's that?

High latency
Useless streaming tech
No differential Line in/out
Useless display and volume knob
No control application for Windows/Mac
Response targets made for domestic environments

 

[Bwaslo]

That image was indeed what I was thinking of, @Emulator II.

But interesting, good to know that the opposing force effect still is effectively... effective then, thanks @staticV3.

But then the question, at least for me becomes, why do that? Is the radiation pattern perhaps more agreeable when mounted this way, or is it perhaps purely a aesthetic choice?

Might be because the cabinet is die-cast aluminum, the shape might have to do with getting it out of the mold. (Per absolutely no actual experience with die casting!)

 

[h2opt]

Mixing a song on a pair of speakers and then mixing the same song on another pair of speakers wouldn’t work, well, unless the mixing engineer has a total memory loss in the time between making those two mixes. The mixing engineer would have learned too much about the mix for his first attempt, which would give him a “head start” for his second attempt that could lead him to either a better mix, or even make it worse second guessing his previous decisions. The better mix of the two attempts will likely, in the end, be the better sounding mix on both pair of loudspeakers.

yes, for sure.
mixing the same song on different speakers is just a show for youtubers, in reality I would test the speakers just by listening to my old projects and starting a few new songs also listening to songs that I know really well. I have good ears
it would take me a few minutes to understand which is better for my needs, but unfortunately I live on an island in the middle of mediteranian sea so I can't test speakers in this way..
I have to use my intuition and read a lot of forums to understand at least something.

 

[Ratterbass]

Why's that?

AFAIK Wiim only use a 10band parametric EQ for room correction, which can introduce phase issues and the latency is pretty high. An arc Studio is cheaper and better in pretty every regard of the goal is a linear phase speaker output.

 

[goat76]

High latency
Useless streaming tech
No differential Line in/out
Useless display and volume knob
No control application for Windows/Mac
Response targets made for domestic environments

Yes, it's not like a professional studio lacks EQ capabilities.

 

[kharan]

High latency

Do you know the latency?

I have considered using either that or a Wiim Pro for EQ purposes in the bass region, but it must also be low latency enough for dialogue in TV shows and movies. And also some gaming. The streaming function is a nice to have though.

 

[gnarly]

4.1 ms...not high.

 

[amirm]

Mixing a song on a pair of speakers and then mixing the same song on another pair of speakers wouldn’t work, well, unless the mixing engineer has a total memory loss in the time between making those two mixes. The mixing engineer would have learned too much about the mix for his first attempt, which would give him a “head start” for his second attempt that could lead him to either a better mix, or even make it worse second guessing his previous decisions. The better mix of the two attempts will likely, in the end, be the better sounding mix on both pair of loudspeakers.

Same defeatist attitude expressed 50 years ago when Dr. Toole started his research as to what sounds good to listeners. You won't know until you try. Being dismissive so anything goes subjective opinion is not how you conduct a proper evaluation.

We also have clear ways to deal with such obstacles, if your wet thumb in the air about them is true. You first create a simple mix task that can be completely rather quickly. You then perform it a few times on the same speaker blindly. That is, the mix engineer doesn't know the speakers are the same in each trial. If the mix engineer creates a different mix the second time with identical speaker, then we learn a ton right there. We could exclude these people in any follow up testing.

Next we use the above as training phase for a reference speaker, say a Neumann with its ruler flat response. We then start the test with the mix being performed randomly on a few speakers. One could be a control with the reference speaker but say, with a suck out such as "BBC dip." Any training effect would exist across all the speakers being evaluated, nullifying your worry.

Same study then needs to be performed using a few mix tasks to statistically evaluate which one is more sensitive to monitor itself.

 

[amirm]

mixing the same song on different speakers is just a show for youtubers, in reality I would test the speakers just by listening to my old projects and starting a few new songs also listening to songs that I know really well. I have good ears

I thought your concern was ability to mix on a speaker. If you just want to know what sounds right, research already tells us what that is, in objective metrics.

 

[h2opt]

I thought your concern was ability to mix on a speaker. If you just want to know what sounds right, research already tells us what that is, in objective metrics.

Yes Amir, the ability to mix is my concern,
But I have a different workflow since I compose produce mix and master all at the same time, so I mix master with a producer mentality which I love because I have full control of my sound.
So, I can produce on most speakers but to do surgical mixing decisions I need a better monitor for sure. One of my best mix/masters I ever made was on yamaha hs8 with a hs 8s sub in a well treated studio i had back in the day, so I'm guessing any of this great monitors Gens Nuemanns will make my work way better and easier..
I am very confident in my skills because I have 20+ years of experience... I am self taught, I know I can learn any speaker the question is which out of this are best for the price and are more portable in case I move to India or other country, also i need some low end monitoring because I make experimental electronic music playing with all kinds of frequencies but I don't want a sub woofer because is heavy for travelling...
Also I overthink a lot. So it is hard to make a decision without the ability to test.
I will also get some good planar headphones, and maybe VSX just to have it as reference.. I had Ananda Nano but I returned them because of a rattling noise at certain frequencies...
This is my situation.
I am watching your youtube now to learn more about sound and measurements..
Thanks.

 

[Hubi74]

With EQ it is possible to make ANY speaker flat to 28Hz at some level. You could take a 1" driver in a soda can and eq it flat to 20Hz, but that doesn't mean it can do it loud enough for you to hear.

It's only practical for closed box speakers, or ported speakers down to their tuning frequency. The Orbit is a closed box design, if we don't count the cardioid slots as vents, so the choice to extend the frequency range down low is not surprising.