Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[3125b]

I’m suggesting that they would be more than capable to performing as a hifi speaker at 4m listening distance.

Maybe, for casual listening at low to moderate volume they'd probably still be fine.
But it's a pretty big ask from a pretty small speaker, they're slightly smaller than most 6.5-7" 2-way bookshelf speakers or active monitors, but larger than most 5" 2-way.

Neumann KH80 vs Neumann KH120II vs Neumann KH150 vs Genelec 8040 vs

comparesizes.com

Volume of select active and passive speaker models:
KH120II 11,9l
305P MKII 12,7l
R-51M 12,9l
Orbit 11 18,5l
DBR62 20,5l
KH150 21,2l
M126Be 21,3l
C6B 21,5l
R3 Meta 28,4l
1723 B. S 30,2l

None of the other speakers listed have comparable bass extension, I would not consider using any of the other models without a subwoofer for listening distances that long in a necessarily fairly large room.

 

[levimax]

Does anyone have experience with Cardioid bass speakers and sub integration? I find small ported speakers can be difficult to integrate with subs due to large and rapidly changing group delay which can cause cancellation issues. People are talking about 80 Hz sub crossover but I like to have an octave of clean and flat response below the crossover point which would be more like 160 Hz with these. The more I look at the measurements the more these look like specialized and amazing for size and cost nearfield monitors but maybe not as flexible for general Hi-Fi use as some other options.

 

[staticV3]

Does anyone have experience with Cardioid bass speakers and sub integration? I find small ported speakers can be difficult to integrate with subs due to large and rapidly changing group delay which can cause cancellation issues. People are talking about 80 Hz sub crossover but I like to have an octave of clean and flat response below the crossover point which would be more like 160 Hz with these. The more I look at the measurements the more these look like specialized and amazing for size and cost nearfield monitors but maybe not as flexible for general Hi-Fi use as some other options.

The Orbit has clean and flat response down to 40Hz, likely with no major group delay issues due to the sealed design.

This makes it a prime candidate for an 80Hz Xover, or even lower.

 

[h2opt]

Hi everyone!

I've been reading this forums for many years but only today i made an account and this is my first post.
I produce electronic music for over 20 years and I mix and master for about 3 years here in eastern europe

I am looking for new monitors for my studio, mostly for mixing and mastering complex electronic music of all kinds and would love some help from other mixing engineers.
My budget is around 1500 euros its about 1800 dollars. I live like a nomad so I always move around different countries, now i am on an island in Greece. My rooms change but i always make some acoustic treatment because sound is very important for me.

I auditioned Genelec 8030 next to kh120ii and to me genelec sounded good but strange with too much micro details in the mids and no bass so I liked kh120ii more.
I love the idea of ma1 calibration because i change houses often so calibration is a must i guess. The only thing that draws me back is the expensive sub plus the fact that i need a sub is a problem since i move a lot from country to country. I also looked at Footprint03 from Barefoot but people told me that the kh120ii are more precise for mixing..

Now Palmer Orbit 11 is here exactly when I am ready to purchase my first expensive monitors and they caught my eye. I love that they go deep and I won't need a sub etc.

My question is, does anyone know a better alternative for my situation? Is this all we have at this price range? genelec vs neumann

Thanks!

 

[Bwaslo]

Yeah that's fair. Its not far off, if at all 80hz and above compared to any typical speaker that's decent out there. The output limitations it has should be a given due to its size and sealed cabinet, and it's not really a deal-breaker at all if subs are an option

And anyway, in a room, subs and mains hardly ever are optimally placed at the same locations. I think the best situation to use would be to have the Orbits and separate subs playing at similar levels (and then overall response flattened with eq).

That would help the SPL ability at very low frequencies, as well as add some location diversity to operate more simllarly to Geddes' and LeJeune's sub "swarms".

 

[staticV3]

Hi @h2opt! Welcome to ASR.

My question is, does anyone know a better alternative for my situation? Is this all we have at this price range? genelec vs neumann

None as well engineered, though the Orbit looks to be a serious competitor.

I'd wait for Klippel measurements from Amir and/or Erin, and if those don't reveal any nasty flaws, then the Orbit seems like the absolute best option for a mobile, full-range mastering setup within your budget.

Yes the lack of internal room correction is a shame, but you could add that via an iLoud Subwoofer or iLoud Arc Studio.

 

[Bwaslo]

Probably obvious to most here, but should be stated --
With EQ it is possible to make ANY speaker flat to 28Hz at some level. You could take a 1" driver in a soda can and eq it flat to 20Hz, but that doesn't mean it can do it loud enough for you to hear. The limit to how much LF eq you might want to use depends on how much you can avoid it bottoming out with likely program material.

The fact that the Orbit 11 has two 8" woofers, with (I hope) long throw ability, would imply that with its available power useful sub bass can be produced.

I guess maybe it can be worded better: with a passive speaker, the lower -3dB corner is based on what the physics of the driver and box can do. For an active speaker using DSP, though, it's pretty much just a number that can be chosen. Don't be necessarily impressed by how low a speaker can go until you hear it behaving well with material you plan to play on it.

 

[Bwaslo]

Yes the lack of internal room correction is a shame, but you could add that via an iLoud Subwoofer or iLoud Arc Studio.

or use a Wiim Ultra or the like
.

 

[Liftro]

I think you need to read what I wrote again, as I never said anything implying that an acoustically dead room should be used for recording and mixing.

You're right, I misunderstood.

 

[levimax]

The Orbit has clean and flat response down to 40Hz, likely with no major group delay issues due to the sealed design.

This makes it a prime candidate for an 80Hz Xover, or even lower.

Not really, big time distortion starts at 80 Hz which to me indicates GD probably starts there as well.

 

[Salt]

And anyway, in a room, subs and mains hardly ever are optimally placed at the same locations. I think the best situation to use would be to have the Orbits and subs playing at similar levels (and then overall response flattened with eq).

That would help the SPL ability at very low frequencies, as well as add some location diversity to operate more simllarly to Geddes' and LeJeune's sub "swarms".

A pair of iLoud 6" available here now.

 

[staticV3]

or use a Wiim Ultra or the like
.

For professional mastering work, the Ultra is likely a suboptimal solution.

 

[h2opt]

I'd wait for Klippel measurements from Amir and/or Erin, and if those don't reveal any nasty flaws, then the Orbit seems like the absolute best option for a mobile, full-range mastering setup within your budget.

Yes the lack of internal room correction is a shame, but you could add that via an iLoud Subwoofer or iLoud Arc Studio.

Do you have any idea when Amir or Erin will post this info? one week or one month from now?

For professional mastering work, the Ultra is likely a suboptimal solution.

Yes I checked it now and it looks like it's not for what I need.

Yes the lack of internal room correction is a shame, but you could add that via an iLoud Subwoofer or iLoud Arc Studio.

I like this little sub, very compact, would look nice with Orbit 11 since they are all cubes

 

[staticV3]

Do you have any idea when Amir or Erin will post this info? one week or one month from now?

I don't, sorry.

 

[Bwaslo]

Do you have any idea when Amir or Erin will post this info? one week or one month from now?

The guy from Palmer said shipments to the USA won't happen till late next month (BHPhoto in USA says the same), so I expect that Amir or Erin are unlikely to have a set in hand before then. No idea how long it takes for Amir to perform the tests and write them up, probably not quick.

 

[amirm]

Do you have any idea when Amir or Erin will post this info? one week or one month from now?

I am told a pair is allocated to me for testing but it has to still be shipped to me. It is coming from east coast so minimum time would be around a week. I will get it tested in a day or two after it gets here. So I say the review is 2 to 3 weeks away.

 

[staticV3]

If it needs to be available quick, then the KH120II is an excellent choice as well.

@h2opt just keep in mind that to use MA1 for room correction, you need to buy the $300 MA1 mic separately, other mics won't work.

Also the calibration setup is a bit tedious:


You'll have to repeat this every time you change location, though at least after calibration you can disconnect the Ethernet switch/cables and audio interface, until you move again and need to recalibrate.

Edit:
For the absolute easiest studio level auto calibration, you could consider the iLoud Micro Monitor Pro, MTM MKII, or the iLoud Precision range.

Also very compact, and the calibration microphone plugs directly into the speakers and calibration runs independently, so there's no need to even install any software.

The trade-off to Neumann and Palmer is worse directivity control and less output capability for deep, clean bass.

 

[h2opt]

The guy from Palmer said shipments to the USA won't happen till late next month (BHPhoto in USA says the same), so I expect that Amir or Erin are unlikely to have a set in hand before then. No idea how long it takes for Amir to perform the tests and write them up, probably not quick.

looks like I might buy Orbit 11 before the measurements
I cant wait )) but I will wait for more people to review them in the next weeks
I really need a comparison with kh120ii from a mixing engineer.
For some reason I feel like Orbit 11 will be best for me, I love the idea the looks and the stats and the name, something different.

 

[h2opt]

I am told a pair is allocated to me for testing but it has to still be shipped to me. It is coming from east coast so minimum time would be around a week. I will get it tested in a day or two after it gets here. So I say the review is 2 to 3 weeks away.

Very nice, thanks Amir, I appreciate what you do!!! can't wait

 

[amirm]

I really need a comparison with kh120ii from a mixing engineer.

I have never found such evaluations being based on anything objective/reliable. They are equiv. to subjective evaluations by audiophiles.

A proper protocol would be to perform a defined task, a mix, and have it produced with these speakers and another pair. Then have a panel evaluate them on whatever target they think is proper (another can of warms). There is at least one research paper on this but other than this, folks pretend to do proper evaluation but never do. They don't even post a frequency response of their rooms!