Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[RT.]

• Both can cross over -> internal LPF and matching HPF to the Line out going to the Orbit.
• Neither can DSP the AES/SPDIF output, so you'll have to connect the Orbit via Line, resulting in two redundant signal conversions.
• Only the KH750 can apply room correction and time alignment to the Line output.

-> KH750 is more suitable.

& @Breeze98

Here you can find the bass management manual for the Genelec. I will search for the official document of the Neumann as well and share it with you.

https://www.audiopro.de/medias/item/18925/genelec_bass_management_bedienungsanleitung_englisch.pdf

 

[RT.]

The KH750 can cut room mode peaks above the crossover frequency via MA1. The 7360A cannot as GLM does not modify the 7360A's Line out signal.

Exactly the same can be done with the 7360a. It is a SAM device.

 

[RT.]

@staticV3 & @Breeze98:

Here you can download the manual for the KH750 dsp (available in English):

Download Center - Neumann

www.neumann.com

 

[Mort]

The 7360A cannot as GLM does not modify the 7360A's Line out signal.

This is my understanding. I own a 7360a, but do not use the analog system so I can't confirm. But I do know GLM well, and I don't see how that could happen.

 

[RT.]

This is my understanding. I own a 7360a, but do not use the analog system so I can't confirm. But I do know GLM well, and I don't see how that could happen.

It is described in the bass management user guide from Genelec I shared above.

 

[staticV3]

@Ilkka Rissanen

When a traditional DSP-less monitor such as the Genelec 8030C (or indeed the Orbit 11) is connected to the Analog Line output of the Genelec 7360A, to what extent can GLM apply frequency crossover, time/phase alignment, and room correction to the entire playback system?

 

[Hubi74]

the rule of thumb was that most major retailers (target, best buy, etc) would take 50%, 30% was possible but less common, and only a few took less

No matter if Palmer gets 500 or 600€ after dealer percentage, that's still not taking a profit on 3 drivers this capable, a solid aluminum enclosure, potent integrated amplifier and DSP, a rigging system, and so forth.

This is obviously a marketing strategy to boost the brand, with properly priced products to follow later.

Nothing wrong with that, just something to be aware of. Lucky those who are taking advantage while the deal is on.

 

[Pearljam5000]

"Advanced low-end design improves wall coupling and reduces cancelations"
What does it mean?

 

[Salt]

How do you add subs to these?

A LPF at 80 Hz can be activated to cross over to a (active with DSP) subwoofer.

 

[RT.]

@Ilkka Rissanen

When a traditional DSP-less monitor such as the Genelec 8030C (or indeed the Orbit 11) is connected to the Analog Line output of the Genelec 7360A, to what extent can GLM apply frequency crossover, time/phase alignment, and room correction to the entire playback system?

You can connect the Orbit in both ways. Analog via the analog XLR input and digital via the AES. For sure GLM only has influence to the output signal of the 7360a and NOT to the Palmer Orbit 11. This only works with Genelec’s own SAM devices. But the 7360a will deliver the GLM adjusted signal to any satellite speaker on the digital path. On the analog path it simply uses the fixed crossover frequency of 85Hz. This will work anyhow.

 

[Salt]

First listening impressions (after warming up to ambient temperature; connected via analogue XLR):

There is not much to add o the statement of @DschayAge .
The sound is transparent without any noticable distorsions or dysharmonics at moderate loudness.
The bass is ... impressive, for shure, but not 'too much'. In the same (small, 11 square meters) laboratoy/formerly-guestroom recently resided a 12" PA bass with AMT-V1, and the experienced bass in volume, structure and lowest frequency is almost the same with the Palmer (all settings on default). Btw. the bass can be tuned according to the distance to the front wall, so attenuation is available.
Waiting for Klippel now, listening to music meanwhile...

 

[3125b]

No matter if Palmer gets 500 or 600€ after dealer percentage, that's still not taking a profit on 3 drivers this capable, a solid aluminum enclosure, potent integrated amplifier and DSP, a rigging system, and so forth.

I was wondering this as well.
Looking at the Genelec 8341 which is a very similar speaker in many aspects (same number and presumably quality of drivers, cast aluminium housing of similar size, fully active) it costs 2699€.
Manufacturing costs are going to be higher in Finland than China (probably not as big a difference as one might think, these Palmer won't be made in some cheap backyard workshop, this requires a rather capable OEM), but R&D is going to be cheaper per unit because they sold tons of them. Warranty cost is higher for the Orbit as well since Palmer gives a 5 year warranty, Genelec only 2 years.

The margins on these speakers that currently cost 661€ (including R&D, manufacture, shipping, storage, warranty, support, dealer profits and whatever else) before taxes are going to be slim if existing at all. These are certainly cross-financed with their other products.

 

[staticV3]

But the 7360a will deliver the GLM adjusted signal to any satellite speaker on the digital path.

From the 7360A user manual:


Further from Genelec's Support page: https://support.genelec.com/hc/en-u...c-SAM-subwoofer-with-non-SAM-Genelec-speakers


Am I mistaken, or are all of your posts these last couple pages AI-generated garbage?

In any case, @Ilkka Rissanen's answer will reveal the truth.

 

[RT.]

@Ilkka Rissanen

When a traditional DSP-less monitor such as the Genelec 8030C (or indeed the Orbit 11) is connected to the Analog Line output of the Genelec 7360A, to what extent can GLM apply frequency crossover, time/phase alignment, and room correction to the entire playback system?

Out of the shared bass management user manual:

“B. Centralized Bass Management Architecture (CBM)

The so-called centralized bass management architecture places all audio signal filtering resources in

one central location, the subwoofer bass management unit. This means that all bass-managed

subwoofer outputs provide filtered audio signals:

• A low-pass-filtered signal output to the subwoofer driver

• A number of high-pass-filtered outputs for each individual monitor(s)”

 

[Pearljam5000]

I doubt they will sound anything like Genelec/Neumann
But they're great value in any case

 

[RT.]

From the 7360A user manual:
View attachment 512425

Further from Genelec's Support page: https://support.genelec.com/hc/en-u...c-SAM-subwoofer-with-non-SAM-Genelec-speakers
View attachment 512426

Am I mistaken, or are all of your posts these last couple pages AI-generated garbage?

In any case, @Ilkka Rissanen's answer will reveal the truth.

Yes you are mistaken. Just read the manual I shared. I copied some text from the Audiopro and from the Neumann homepage to save me some writing. Maybe this is causing your impression.

Can’t we just stay friendly? We both just want to help. Or?

 

[staticV3]

Out of the shared bass management user manual:

“B. Centralized Bass Management Architecture (CBM)

The so-called centralized bass management architecture places all audio signal filtering resources in

one central location, the subwoofer bass management unit. This means that all bass-managed

subwoofer outputs provide filtered audio signals:

• A low-pass-filtered signal output to the subwoofer driver

• A number of high-pass-filtered outputs for each individual monitor(s)”

View attachment 512427

Indeed. The 7360A's Analog Line output (and Only the Line output), can send a high-passed signal.

But that's the full extent of signal processing that the 7360A can apply to its satellite/monitor outputs. No GLM, no phase. Only HPF on analog out.

 

[Salt]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
all Your arguments about Genelec (and Neumann) may be highly interesting, but off topic in this thread.
Would it harm to anyone to post on appropriate threads or, if not available, open one to this specific question?
Thanks in advance

 

[RT.]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
all Your arguments about Genelec (and Neumann) may be highly interesting, but off topic in this thread.
Would it harm to anyone to post on appropriate threads or, if not available, open one to this specific question?
Thanks in advance

We just tried to answer the question from @Breeze98. He asked if he could use one or both named subs in combination with the Palmer Orbit 11, which is possible. But yes, your comment is correct.

 

[Audionaut]

Waiting for Klippel now, listening to music meanwhile...

I hope you enjoy your new speakers.
I would love to hear them, but I won't be buying them because I already have too many speakers.
Have fun with them!