Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[90sNintendoKid]

We have a clean sine sweep at 104 dB. What more could you ask for speakers of this size?
View attachment 511903

I'm not familiar with distortion graphs, I'm guessing this is good?

 

[kharan]

I'm not familiar with distortion graphs, I'm guessing this is good?

For a 18L speaker, this is outstanding.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

For a 18L speaker, this is outstanding.

Thank you, I'm still on the SPL tab in Room EQ Wizard

 

[Liftro]

Well. Flat on axis is a big part of it. But If it doesn't measure similarly off axis then who knows? DSP can famously produce a speaker that resembles this meme:

View attachment 511932

The Orbit 11 seems to have good enough directivity based on their measurements that this will not be the case, but it never hurts to check...

I understand. I also believe that if you want to have an eargasm, you won't achieve it with just a pair of speakers. For that, you need multiple subwoofers, or at least one. And you need to apply a room correction system or having a room built by an acoustic engineer that I believe 90% of mortals do not have.

 

[Liftro]

I replaced my Yamaha HS80s with Neumann KH120As, and although the Neumanns sounded more balanced, they lacked the low frequencies that the HS80s had. But the real difference came when I added the KH750 subwoofer with room correction. Once I tried this sound quality, there was no going back for me. My next equipment has to be at least as good. I won't accept anything less. And I tell people: get a subwoofer in your life! If the room allows it, of course...

 

[dfuller]

We have a clean sine sweep at 104 dB. What more could you ask for speakers of this size?
View attachment 511903

I question how they're managing this in a smaller box than a DD8C with less surface area for the midwoofer because it's a coaxial. The 8C is not using a slouch of a driver for the mid/midwoofer, it's a quite high performance customized SEAS part, and the rears are Wavecor sub drivers meant to do a lot of excursion... both are considerably higher distortion in the LF region.

I don't doubt that one could get higher performance than the 8C, I just find this difficult to believe at the price point and size.

 

[kharan]

I question how they're managing this in a smaller box than a DD8C with less surface area for the midwoofer because it's a coaxial. The 8C is not using a slouch of a driver for the mid/midwoofer, it's a quite high performance customized SEAS part, and the rears are wavecor sub drivers meant to do a lot of excursion... both are considerably higher distortion in the LF region.

I don't doubt that one could get higher performance, I just find this difficult to believe.

TBH, the D&D's distortion figures are quite decent from 250 Hz onwards, but D&D is extending the cardioid pattern way down to 100 Hz, unlike the 250 Hz figure we see with the Orbit, that undoubtedly creates different operating conditions for the midwoofer as far as its enclosure goes.

For the woofers themselves, I'm waiting to see how much electronic compression there is. The HD figures Palmer provided are relative to the fundamental, and I would bet a good deal that this at 104 dB were aren't seeing an F3 at 28 Hz, likely not at 94 dB either, but we might get a good surprise there. On the other hand, as far as I can tell, D&D 8C don't have any electronic compression at 96 dB.

 

[3125b]

At the other end, would a speaker like this be worth a look for budget conscious peeps -

The specs aren't exactly impressive, and what data is available shows some on-axis FR issues as well.
Seems there are plenty of better, cheaper monitors available.
These new ones are a much more ambitious product.

TBH, the D&D's distortion figures are quite decent from 250 Hz onwards, but D&D is extending the cardioid pattern way down to 100 Hz, unless the 250 Hz here, that undoubtedly creates different operating conditions for the midwoofer as far as its enclosure goes.

I'd really like to see full measurements of the ME Geithain RL 901K, they're almost the same price as the D&D 8C and generally have similar specs (with cardioid down to 1Hz).

Orbit 11 - 18.5l - 1598€/pair
D&D 8C - 50l - 13277€/pair
RL 901K - 118l - 13698€/pair
Well I guess the latter two are closer to one another.

 

[Liftro]

The specs aren't exactly impressive, and what data is available shows some on-axis FR issues as well.
Seems there are plenty of better, cheaper monitors available.
These new ones are a much more ambitious product.


I'd really like to see full measurements of the ME Geithain RL 901K, they're almost the same price as the D&D 8C and generally have similar specs (with cardioid down to 1Hz).

Orbit 11 - 18.5l - 1598€/pair
D&D 8C - 50l - 13277€/pair
RL 901K - 118l - 13698€/pair
Well I guess the latter two are closer to one another.

Just looking at the price difference, I don't think the Palmers will threaten D&D8C or the Geithain. I'm happy as long as they're better than Kalis.

 

[Bwaslo]

The new smaller D&Ds (6C?) might be a better comparison. And also more acceptable in size for most. The big 8Cs, sitting up high on a stand are really imposing, like you're in their house, not them in yours.

 

[tifune]

I have a full time job, a wife and 2 small kids, and a house, so I don't have oceans of time.

I assumed we're all posting from the toilet because the rest of the time we're busy working to afford this hobby.

 

[dfuller]

Just looking at the price difference, I don't think the Palmers will threaten D&D8C or the Geithain. I'm happy as long as they're better than Kalis.

I'm not talking about "threatening", just "I'm not sure this adds up". The SPL handling seems too good to be true.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Is there an advantage in using a 6.5 inch mid VS 5 inch like on Genelec Ones?

 

[staticV3]

Is there an advantage in using a 6.5 inch mid VS 5 inch like on Genelec Ones?

Lower excursion required for any given SPL

That increases the chance that the driver is within its linear operating range, and it also makes for a more consistent waveguide for the tweeter.

On the flip side, a bigger mid range will start beaming sooner, meaning that you have to cross over the tweeter earlier to avoid directivity error.

It also makes designing the waveguide concept more difficult since there's less frontal area that you can shape at will and more that has to be cone-shaped.

 

[Liftro]

I'm not talking about "threatening", just "I'm not sure this adds up". The SPL handling seems too good to be true.

For that reason, I prefer to wait for more information.

 

[dickiefunk]

I’ve been looking at the thd graphs and I’m not sure how to read or understand these? The original KH120’s that I own have higher distortion than the KH120ii’s so if the Orbit 11’s can at least match my KH120’s I would be very happy.
Looking at the charts provided so far, how do the Orbit 11’s compare to the original KH120a’s, KH120ii’s and KH150’s?

Regarding output, I tend to run my KH120a’s with the output on the 100dB setting and the input gain turned up to 0dB. I’ve never had my MOTU 828es interface turned up anywhere near full volume and when I want to play a mix at the loudest I feel comfortable with I’m still only turning the interface up to 70%. I have a lot of headroom left even when it’s only set to the 100dB output setting. Palmer state a max peak spl of 116db compared to 111dB of my KH120’s. I based on this info, I don’t think I’ll ever run out of output with the Orbit 11’s.

I

 

[amirm]

I’ve been looking at the thd graphs and I’m not sure how to read or understand these? The original KH120’s that I own have higher distortion than the KH120ii’s so if the Orbit 11’s can at least match my KH120’s I would be very happy.
Looking at the charts provided so far, how do the Orbit 11’s compare to the original KH120a’s, KH120ii’s and KH150’s?

Distortion measurements are NOT standardized so you can't compare manufacturer's data with mine. Or other people. So you need to wait for my testing to get conclusive information.

Mind you, they are not useless and you can see correlations for specific problems. Just not with respect to playback capability, SPL, etc.

 

[Downsideup]

I’ve been looking at the thd graphs and I’m not sure how to read or understand these? The original KH120’s that I own have higher distortion than the KH120ii’s so if the Orbit 11’s can at least match my KH120’s I would be very happy.
Looking at the charts provided so far, how do the Orbit 11’s compare to the original KH120a’s, KH120ii’s and KH150’s?

Regarding output, I tend to run my KH120a’s with the output on the 100dB setting and the input gain turned up to 0dB. I’ve never had my MOTU 828es interface turned up anywhere near full volume and when I want to play a mix at the loudest I feel comfortable with I’m still only turning the interface up to 70%. I have a lot of headroom left even when it’s only set to the 100dB output setting. Palmer state a max peak spl of 116db compared to 111dB of my KH120’s. I based on this info, I don’t think I’ll ever run out of output with the Orbit 11’s.

I

I'm sure Orbit are enough in your case. All the max spl specs are unfortunately vague to me, for ex:
-Kh120 II output 116,8db SPL max
-Orbit 11 output 116db SPL max

Of course the first with 6L volume, a small woofer, will certainly not output the same power.

Neumann:

Max. SPL calc. in half space at 3% THD at 1m (averaged between 100 Hz and 6 kHz) 116.8 dB SPL Max. SPL in full space at 3% THD at 1m (averaged between 100 Hz and 6 kHz) 110.8 dB SPL Bass capability: Max. SPL in half space at 3% THD at 1m (averaged between 50 Hz and 100 Hz) 105.1 dB SPL Max. short term SPL with IEC-weighted noise (IEC 60268-5) at 1 m, in typical listening conditions 108 dB(C) SPL Max. short term SPL with music material at 2.3 m in typical listening conditions (pair / full range) 98 dB(C) SPL Max. short term SPL with music material at 2.3 m, in typical listening conditions (pair with subwoofer) 104 dB(C) SPL Max. long term SPL with pink noise at 2.3 m, in typical listening conditions (single / pair full range) 88 / 93 dB(C) SPL Max. long term SPL with pink noise at 2.3 m, in typical listening conditions (single / pair with subwoofer) 87 / 93 dB(C) SPL

Orbit 11: SPL Max of 116db at what scale ? anechoic ? distance ? pink noise?
I'd love to have a continuous max spl in general, and of course for Orbit 11 if possible @UffdiePalme !! Thanks in advance.

 

[BeeKay]

It looks pretty cool in white View attachment 511935

I agree.
Way cooler than this:

 

[Liftro]

I agree.
Way cooler than this:

View attachment 512057

Wow, nice woofer!!!