Devnull
Active Member
3 of these would be interesting for LCR and relatively affordable.
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Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)
- Thread starter kharan
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kemmler3D
Master Contributor
If this thing looks as good on a klippel as one would hope, this really does shake up the small monitor market... Will have to be mentioned alongside 8030 and KH120... I'm thinking what's the catch?
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Definitely smells fishy.
This is not a small speaker. It's pretty squarely a mid-size bookshelf and doesn't qualify for use in "space constrained set ups", at least as I'd qualify them.
Mindscapes
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The catch might be that you need really low latency if you use a monitor for music production, and usually fir filters increase it. Anything over 10 ms might make using vst or live mixing difficult. Other monitors of this type usually let you disengage linear phase processing for those applications. It has to be seen how much low latency does their implementation have.
- Thread Starter
- #25
It's a three way with dual 8" smaller than a C6B, it's not very small but it's definitely on the smaller side. I don't expect very high quality components, but with good component rationalisation and if you plan to sell them by the thousands, $1800/pr should be an achievable price. I don't expect any of the drivers to handle high excursion well, but if they can be linear at low to medium SPL and the limiter functions well for high SPL, it would be a pretty nifty speaker.
The catch is that the measures look good but quite smoothed, and with a handful of exceptions like Kef or Genelec, there aren't a lot of coaxials that perform exceptionally well. There's a decent chance this ends up merely "okay", but the price is very contained, so even that would be a win.
When I look at the price, at the amount of technologies, and at a the launch where all the documentation is ready, this reads like a big company making an aggressive play to enter a new market adjacent to their main business. I mean, they are starting with cast aluminium, not CNC'ed MDF.
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
Yes, could be, although presumably they're well aware of this. A little latency (~10ms) is IMO OK for situations where you're not recording anything live.
Mindscapes
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I agree, i use fir filtering with obscene latency too in my dsping. I just find it a bit strange it becoming a selling point for the monitor application. According to chat gpt, the kii three has 90 ms and the 8C 33ms of latency with linear phase engaged, making the feature basically unusable in the intended application, which I find a bit weird. One would think it's something more appetibile for the hi fi rather than pro market.
In the product video that @kharan posted, they mentioned a delay time of around 4ms. I don't think this will be an issue. Most studio monitors come with DSP these days, introducing slight latency. The Neumann KH120 II has a statet latency of 2.6ms.
I'm currently looking for a speaker in this price range and they look pretty compelling. As soon as they become available in germany, I'll probably give them a try and compare them to some friends speakers in a similar price bracket. If you're interested, I might even post a few measurements once I have them.
I hope reliability won't be an issue. So far, I have had no problems with Palmer products. The only problem I have had so far was a broken wall wart for my pwt12. They responded quickly and provided me with spare parts. So let's see how these monitors hold up.
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Hello everyone.
Flo from the Palmer video here. Really nice to see the discussion in here!
If you have any questions regarding the Orbit 11 or need more specs, just ask in here and I will try to answer as best as I can or ask our acoustics team ;-).
Flo from the Palmer video here. Really nice to see the discussion in here!
If you have any questions regarding the Orbit 11 or need more specs, just ask in here and I will try to answer as best as I can or ask our acoustics team ;-).
- Thread Starter
- #30
Some more thoughts regarding the price point, the "fishiness" and all of that.
Right now, the Kali IN-8 is 369€, ie less than half the MSRP of the Palmer product. Both are coaxial, both have 8" drivers even if one has twice the amount. A lot of people questioned the validity of the Kali's pricing at the beginning too.
Hello, do make sure to DM the moderators/admin and ask for an "audio company" tag.
I do have a few questions:
1. Would you consider sending a unit to Amir for a full Klippel NFS measurement?
2. How do you handle power? Does that line about a multiband limiter means that the bass extension decrease as you increase SPL? Like on the Kii or the Devialet products?
3. Is that the first product of a series, with bigger and smaller siblings coming?
4. This is a somewhat wild take, but have you considered a version of this product for the home market? It's compact, the design is attractive, it can be full range at least at lower SPL outputs, and the reduced interaction with side walls means more forgiving positioning. It doesn't need a lot to make it more friendly to the home market, just different connectors.
Right now, the Kali IN-8 is 369€, ie less than half the MSRP of the Palmer product. Both are coaxial, both have 8" drivers even if one has twice the amount. A lot of people questioned the validity of the Kali's pricing at the beginning too.
Hello, do make sure to DM the moderators/admin and ask for an "audio company" tag.
I do have a few questions:
1. Would you consider sending a unit to Amir for a full Klippel NFS measurement?
2. How do you handle power? Does that line about a multiband limiter means that the bass extension decrease as you increase SPL? Like on the Kii or the Devialet products?
3. Is that the first product of a series, with bigger and smaller siblings coming?
4. This is a somewhat wild take, but have you considered a version of this product for the home market? It's compact, the design is attractive, it can be full range at least at lower SPL outputs, and the reduced interaction with side walls means more forgiving positioning. It doesn't need a lot to make it more friendly to the home market, just different connectors.
As Palmer is new in this product line it would be helpful to know the provenance of the components.
1 Can you give details about the drivers - are they in house designed/manufacturerd? If not, which OEM produces them?
2 Similarly, which amplifier and DAC OEMs have you used for these components?
somebodyelse
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It's showing up today - not sure if something changed on the site, or I unblocked something that was blocking it yesterday. Looks good.
- Thread Starter
- #35
It was also on the second post of the thread.
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Hi Kharan,
sure will try my best.
Regarding the price: We're pretty aware that this product could be priced much higher. But: we decided this is an attractive price that we can make possible and want many users to get into the benefits of that speaker. We don't think an elite approach would be fitting to our core values.
(And maybe there are projects where budget could be useful for even more speakers (Atmos, etc.) ;-)).
To your questions:
1. Already wrote Amir and we would be absolutely open for a full Klippel measurement.
2. No. The multiband limiter, will limit the maximum Output of the Bass, but it will not change the Low frequency cut off. -> When you run the System into the limiter working range the Sound balance will change [less bass] but not the frequency range [Lower cut of] .
3. Orbit 11 is our new top of the line studio monitor. I can't officially confirm what's coming up in the future, but tell you that the studio market isn't one we want to exit in the close future ;-)
4. Nice Idea. Not planned at the moment.
As there was no driver on the market able to handle the requirements we had it's all custom made drivers specially developped for this Product. The development of the driver was a huge part of the project and was done with the latest simmulation and measurement technologies. We developed everything from ground up [Basket, Motor, Cone] to meet the requirements of this product.
Fortunately, as Palmer is part of the Adam Hall Group, we have a great team of acoustic engineers with many years' experience in developing these drivers and didn't have to start from scratch.
somebodyelse
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Not in the UK - "Content not viewable in your region"
- Thread Starter
- #38
I see, blocking imgur is one of the dumbest decision the UK has made.
dickiefunk
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I have been considering picking up a pair of Neumann KH120mk2’s or KH150’s but am going to wait and see how these will compare!
In my personal opinion, people who place speakers close to the wall might find it a bit difficult to press the power button. Do you have any plans to develop speaker control software like Genelec’s GLM or Neumann’s MA1?
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