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Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

Apologies if I misinterpreted...Anyway, I imagine the average consumer would be impressed with anything really. For instance, Erin had a big fiasco when he publicly decried the Presonus Eris 3.5bt (a piece of junk that's barely above cheap computer speakers) and owners telling him was wrong and that they were some of the best speakers ever; most likely cause they've never heard anything better, especially on the desktop. Not saying that's the case here, but we aren't average consumers.
Forum members and forum readers are certainly not average consumers. Nevertheless, many forum members and probably even more readers use lower cost speakers than the better/best Genelec/Neumann/D&D/Kii offers. For many, Orbits may be close to the maximum amount they want to spend - although very good value for money, they aren't exactly cheap. People shopping in this price range rightfully expect high sound quality and also value full frequency range and maybe even small size. Most will be happy with what Orbits deliver.

Generally, I'm intersted in technical discussion based on facts not opinions. If certain distortion levels are acceptable for a highly regarded speaker, these must also be acceptable for a lower cost speaker. Has the micro-smoothness of the transition between high and low SPL regions in directivity plots more acoustic effect than the overall shape and size of these regions? Is a small speaker with sub the same as a large one? If not, what's the difference? Or to put it different, can I just buy that small Neumann/Genelec/Ascilab speaker, add a sub and get big speaker performance as spinorama scores seem to suggest? How loud is loud enough and for which application? Does it make sense to let a speaker play down to 30Hz at 86dB SPL and even at 96db SPL in-room, when it can't play fullrange at higher SPL? I would like to see a discussion of such toppics without people getting worked up. But this seems impossible to some...
 
Your quote comprises general considerations about potential motives of audio gear reviewers.
Indeed, at first general, not to say vague and inacurrate.
And then you've also been very specific about potential motives of a certain reviewer.
So far we have mainly measurements from Erin. No full review unless I missed it.
You missed it.
And I've dully noted you couldn't answer at what special treatment the Orbit review received from Amir, compared to let's say the Ascilabs reviews.
Which makes your argument of a supposed bias invalid.
 
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@illusonic - your over zealous promotion of the Orbit is one thing, but calling into question Amir's integrity is unwarranted. You should apologise and withdraw the implied accusation
This has nothing to do with integrity. Its simply a conflict of interest that Amir points out himself in every Ascilab review:

NOTE: My company, testedaudio.com, is the exclusive distributor for Ascilab products in North America. While objective tests remain the same as for any other speaker, subjective remarks may have business bias.

Being open about it is what actually preserves his integrity.

And again, I wrote about tips how to get the best sound out of the Orbits and later about going the extra mile to give people the information they need to get the best performance from the product. Not giving this information doesn't undercut any reviewers integrity. It would still be very valueable information for potential buyers of reviewed products.
 
Indeed, at first general, not to say vague and inacurrate.
And then you've also been very specific about potential motives of a certain reviewer.

You missed it.
And I've dully noted you couldn't answer at what special treatment the Orbit review received from Amir, compared to let's say the Ascilabs reviews.
Which makes your argument of a supposed bias invalid.
I think its you who is vague. Maybe just write about what exactly you disagree with before making vague accusations.

From my side it is clear that I would like to see at least mentioned if a product already includes fitting EQ functionality when EQ is called for.
And yes, I haven't seen a video review. And I didn't write about any special treatment. So that's not something I need to answer.
 
I think its you who is vague. Maybe just write about what exactly you disagree with before making vague accusations.

From my side it is clear that I would like to see at least mentioned if a product already includes fitting EQ functionality when EQ is called for.
And yes, I haven't seen a video review. And I didn't write about any special treatment. So that's not something I need to answer.
All I see here is a skillfull blend of bad faith and question dodging, laid out for everyone to see.
How do you live with yourself?
 
I think he's employed by Palmer.
 
are we in the useless meandering phase of the threads now. Man I hate ASR sometimes.
 
I have not read all 109 pages, but these speakers in particular seem very well suited to a 5.1 multichannel setup with ART (which uses the bass from all speakers to smooth bass response). I would think that 5 sealed boxes would be optimal for ART up to 150 Hz (I think that is where ART stops). Cardioid down to ~250 Hz (?) is great for handling rear-wall and side-wall reflection issues. Coaxial drivers are great for a coherent sound field. I am just learning a little about ART and multichannel, but $900 x 5 is $4500 is a lot less than a lot of 2 channel speakers on the market. And multichannel is also more forgiving of imperfect speakers, according to Toole's research.

Clarification below. I am talking about multichannel audio 5.1 for a "normal" sized room in a home.
 
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Can we talk about the facts? I live in an apartment, most classic music, 60~70dB, max 75dB, and have a limited budget. I've been following the AsciLab C8C (formerly the C6C) since it first appeared on AudioLabInsight. It was my dream speaker—my endgame—and still is. However, when AsciLab finally announced the C8C's price, I had to give up on it. It's simply beyond my budget, then the Orbit 11: a compact 3-way coaxial design with full-range response (so I do not need a sub in my apartment), cardioid directivity down to 250 Hz (a good feature for my untreated living room), built-in presets and filters, and it's actually within my budget. I've watched every video and review I could find about Orbit. So far, I haven't found another speaker that matches this combination of features, or even comes close, just for me. If I'm missing something, please correct me.
 
As someone who has been following and rooting for the AsciLab C8C (C6C) from the very beginning, I do hope AsciLab will develop a speaker that competes directly with the Orbit 11.
Healthy competition benefits everyone, and I'd be excited to see what AsciLab could come up with.
 
I have not read all 109 pages, but these speakers in particular seem very well suited to a 5.1 multichannel setup with ART (which uses the bass from all speakers to smooth bass response). I would think that 5 sealed boxes would be optimal for ART up to 150 Hz (I think that is where ART stops). Cardioid down to ~250 Hz (?) is great for handling rear-wall and side-wall reflection issues. Coaxial drivers are great for a coherent sound field. I am just learning a little about ART and multichannel, but $900 x 5 is $4500 is a lot less than a lot of 2 channel speakers on the market. And multichannel is also more forgiving of imperfect speakers, according to Toole's research.

Full range speakers are useful for ART, as are multiple subwoofers. Orbits work best in nearfield, not sure theirdirectivity/dispersion profile makes them a good choice for HT applications.
In a very small space could be quite the setup though.

Can we talk about the facts? I live in an apartment, most classic music, 60~70dB, max 75dB, and have a limited budget. I've been following the AsciLab C8C (formerly the C6C) since it first appeared on AudioLabInsight. It was my dream speaker—my endgame—and still is. However, when AsciLab finally announced the C8C's price, I had to give up on it. It's simply beyond my budget, then the Orbit 11: a compact 3-way coaxial design with full-range response (so I do not need a sub in my apartment), cardioid directivity down to 250 Hz (a good feature for my untreated living room), built-in presets and filters, and it's actually within my budget. I've watched every video and review I could find about Orbit. So far, I haven't found another speaker that matches this combination of features, or even comes close, just for me. If I'm missing something, please correct me.

The Orbit certainly has all the buzzwords and modern tech. However, as a package has some flaws - not insurmountable. They measure OK.

Owning both C8C and Orbit, there is no competition there..., but different class of speaker, the Orbit is a nearfield monitor.

You need to listen to the Orbits, there is a bit of individual matching - some people love/hate them. I would only use nearfield, on a desk, with lots of EQ - still have not quite dialled in my set, but can see the potential.
If thats your budget- Kali IN5/8 and Kali sub might be worth considering. I also like Neuman KH120 and Genelec 8040b.

The facts are people are hoping for cheap miracles to break the laws of physics, from a innovative purpose designed nearfield monitor. You may or may not like them. They may work >2m for you
 
Full range speakers are useful for ART, as are multiple subwoofers. Orbits work best in nearfield, not sure theirdirectivity/dispersion profile makes them a good choice for HT applications.
In a very small space could be quite the setup though.
I was talking about multichannel audio (not home theater) in a normal room in a house. I should have been a little more clear about that! :)
 
I was talking about multichannel audio (not home theater) in a normal room in a house. I should have been a little more clear about that! :)

My experience with ART is it makes ordinary speakers sound like very expensive / well measuring speakers.

Do it and let us know!
Thinking about it, with 5 full range speakers, 1 sub may be enough or even not necessary.
With 5.1 - you have to use it for a movie now and then
 
I’ve setup my Orbits in my new living room setup and I’ve bought a third for my centre channel.

I don’t have any measurements to back up my subjective opinion compared to the Kef Q350s I had in my setup in the same room, to me the centre image sounds clearer. This is comparing Orbits with no EQ to Kefs with EQ.

One thing I do have measurements on is that I had to toe in the Kefs because of reflections which I could see in the impulse response.

My living room is L shaped and my speakers are not symmetrical to the room and nor is the mlp.
 
So far, I haven't found another speaker that matches this combination of features, or even comes close, just for me. If I'm missing something, please correct me.
I don't mean to correct you.
The Orbit 11 is really a special and particularly comprehensive package.
But for your needs, you might also want to check these out - I personally think they're a great fit, too.


 
I don't mean to correct you.
The Orbit 11 is really a special and particularly comprehensive package.
But for your needs, you might also want to check these out - I personally think they're a great fit, too.


These have piqued my interest, I couldn't find any measurements on spinorama.org.
 
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