Palmer ORBIT 11 Cardioid Coaxial 3-way studio monitor (MSRP 799€/899$)

[dfuller]

So you're saying this speaker would be end game for most users with some minor tweaks, and that Amir has some agenda to not rave about it? LOL. I hope I'm not reading that right.

No, no, you are...

 

[heflys20]

No, no, you are...

LOL. He recommended the speaker, but said it needs to be properly EQ'd, which we all know...I'm confused. So because he didn't label it the best speaker release in years, he must have some kind agenda to protect Ascilab sales? That requires some mental gymnastics to reach such a conclusion...Like I said, I hope this is some big mistake. LOL.

 

[badtimeticket]

If you watch his video he actually seems a lot more positive.

I feel like what we have here is the classic overcorrection after it turns out the hype thing isn’t perfect

 

[dfuller]

LOL. He recommended the speaker, but said it needs to be properly EQ'd, which we all know...I'm confused. So because he didn't label it the best speaker release in years, he must have some kind agenda to protect Ascilab sales? That requires some mental gymnastics to reach such a conclusion...Like I said, I hope this is some big mistake. LOL.

I've been in enough arguments at this point about it that I know all the talking points.

"But the 8C is worse"
"But the limiting isn't a real problem"
"But muh Neumann and Genelec fanboys"

Like... It's a decent speaker with some minor directivity and response linearity issues that extends about 20hz lower than it probably should, and it's ramming directly into Hofmann's Iron Law because of it.

I feel like what we have here is the classic overcorrection after it turns out the hype thing isn’t perfect

Yeah, more or less. People were hoping for 8C or Kii or C8C performance for a lot cheaper and a lot smaller and they didn't get it.

 

[Salt]

Running in circles brings nothing into a row.
My resumee after following this (and the other) thread (and owning a Orbit):

- The Orbit is well designed and a real bargain for the price though there are few minor flaws that were reported.
- There are competitors, that are technically and per measurement more sophisticated, but mostly at a higher price tag.

For me, personally, I respect these speakers and those, who engineered this, highly, as this is a concept I would have wanted to realize DIY for a long time, but never would and could have manage it at that perfection and that price.
Kudos!

 

[Sokel]

Sorry, I thought this was the Orbit thread but it seems it's the UFO one, only with a tad (tad, not TAD) more serious conspiracy theories as it's pointed to @amirm 's integrity, directly.
(I had to un-ignore to read the absurdity)

That's not fan-boyism, that's obsession.

 

[heflys20]

That's exactly it. It's great for the price....But to imply there's some conspiracy to hold it back and that it'd satisfy 99% of users with some minor tweaks....Well...

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Running in circles brings nothing into a row.
My resumee after following this (and the other) thread (and owning a Orbit):

- The Orbit is well designed and a real bargain for the price though there are few minor flaws that were reported.
- There are competitors, that are technically and per measurement more sophisticated, but mostly at a higher price tag.

For me, personally, I respect these speakers and those, who engineered this, highly, as this is a concept I would have wanted to realize DIY for a long time, but never would and could have manage it at that perfection and that price.
Kudos!

That said, a big brother of the Orbit 11s, with a somewhat larger cabinet, slightly bigger woofers, and a tweeter that crosses over at 1 khz designed to give smoother directivity at the higher frequencies, together with a -3db around 40hz, and priced around $3500 pr seems within the reach of their engineering expertise and would be a true category killer. Maybe soon.

You got your ears on, Uffdie?

 

[illusonic]

Your reasoning has a couple of blind spots.
You're also making baseless asumptions about Amir and Erin's motives, while so far the reality has been proven different.

Your quote comprises general considerations about potential motives of audio gear reviewers.

Erin didn't give a raving review either.
Now tell us in what way the treatment of the other speakers they both tested was any different from that of the Orbits?
If you can't find any, I'm afraid your whole reasoning is invalid.
Nice effort though.

So far we have mainly measurements from Erin. No full review unless I missed it.

 

[illusonic]

So you're saying this speaker would be end game for most users with some minor tweaks, and that Amir has some agenda to not rave about it? LOL. I hope I'm not reading that right.

Not what I wrote. I wrote that in a competitive situation, it would be quite unrealistic to expect a raving review with tips how to get the best sound out of the Orbits from Ascilab's exclusive North America distributor. This is clearly in the context of providing extra information for the users to get the best from these speakers.

 

[illusonic]

That's exactly it. It's great for the price....But to imply there's some conspiracy to hold it back and that it'd satisfy 99% of users with some minor tweaks....Well...

Forget the conspiracy but most people I know, that love listening to music and have somewhat higher expectations with regard to sound quality than average people will be fully satisfied with the Orbits.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Ah sleazy innuendo Sunday it is I guess

 

[heflys20]

So far we have mainly measurements from Erin. No full review unless I missed it.

He did give an opinion and wrote:

"This one was requested by a lot of you fine folks so I bumped it up in my queue for you. My overall impression is that it’s a good speaker. I do find the bass tuning to be a bit weird and rather “bloated” sounding. For nearfield listening the overall response is otherwise great. For farfield listening - or otherwise in a smaller, reflective room - the high frequency is flat and sounds bright. You’ll want to throw a high shelf filter on this speaker if that’s the environment you’re using them in.

10 degrees toed-out seems to be the best use case for these, which is typical for coaxial designs due to their symmetry (edge diffractions and diffractions from the cone/waveguide).

Good SPL capability, maxing out around 95dB at 1 meter.

The high frequency >16kHz shows a pretty big peak that is odd. My Klippel NFS microphone matches my Earthworks M23 microphone within 0.50dB which verified a couple weeks ago when another question came up. You can see this in the very last photo where the black line is my Earthworks M23 and the blue line is the Klippel NFS mic. IOW, I trust my data. It could be a unit variation but I didn’t measure both so I can’t say.

The cardioid design does lend use in regards to the front wall reflections being lessened above about 250Hz.

I saw discussion about noise. I didn’t listen for it but I can’t say I noticed any in my listening sessions. But again, I didn’t listen specifically for that.

Short term dynamic compression cuts the bass and treble but that’s pretty typical with this stimulus (quick sine sweep). However, with typical musical content - shown via the multitone compression - the compression is limited to about 1dB above 30Hz, but much higher below 30Hz.

Overall, for about $1800/pair, I think it’s a good speaker. Could use some tweaks and I imagine the company might be able to issue a firmware update if they are so inclined. It’s relatively compact, has cardioid performance above 250Hz, and a pretty even sweet spot, despite the flaring in the treble which causes the far-field listening to be treble heavy."

 

[heflys20]

Forget the conspiracy but most people I know, that love listening to music and have somewhat higher expectations with regard to sound quality than average people will be fully satisfied with the Orbits.

Apologies if I misinterpreted...Anyway, I imagine the average consumer would be impressed with anything really. For instance, Erin had a big fiasco when he publicly decried the Presonus Eris 3.5bt (a piece of junk that's barely above cheap computer speakers) and owners telling him was wrong and that they were some of the best speakers ever; most likely cause they've never heard anything better, especially on the desktop. Not saying that's the case here, but we aren't average consumers.

 

[Mort]

It seems marketed at those that demand all the buzzwords at the lowest possible price.

 

[illusonic]

I've been in enough arguments at this point about it that I know all the talking points.

"But the 8C is worse"
"But the limiting isn't a real problem"
"But muh Neumann and Genelec fanboys"

Like... It's a decent speaker with some minor directivity and response linearity issues that extends about 20hz lower than it probably should, and it's ramming directly into Hofmann's Iron Law because of it.


Yeah, more or less. People were hoping for 8C or Kii or C8C performance for a lot cheaper and a lot smaller and they didn't get it.

8C distortion is higher, which doesn't make O11 a better speaker - who claimed that?
Yes, the limitation is no problem. It has similar max SPL and distortion as KH310.

I certainly didn't expect something better than the speakers you listed. It was already clear from stoneeh's measurements what to expect.

 

[illusonic]

Running in circles brings nothing into a row.
My resumee after following this (and the other) thread (and owning a Orbit):

- The Orbit is well designed and a real bargain for the price though there are few minor flaws that were reported.
- There are competitors, that are technically and per measurement more sophisticated, but mostly at a higher price tag.

For me, personally, I respect these speakers and those, who engineered this, highly, as this is a concept I would have wanted to realize DIY for a long time, but never would and could have manage it at that perfection and that price.
Kudos!

I agree, although I would say ... but ALL at higher price tag.

 

[illusonic]

He did give an opinion and wrote:

"This one was requested by a lot of you fine folks so I bumped it up in my queue for you. My overall impression is that it’s a good speaker. I do find the bass tuning to be a bit weird and rather “bloated” sounding. For nearfield listening the overall response is otherwise great. For farfield listening - or otherwise in a smaller, reflective room - the high frequency is flat and sounds bright. You’ll want to throw a high shelf filter on this speaker if that’s the environment you’re using them in.

10 degrees toed-out seems to be the best use case for these, which is typical for coaxial designs due to their symmetry (edge diffractions and diffractions from the cone/waveguide).

Good SPL capability, maxing out around 95dB at 1 meter.

The high frequency >16kHz shows a pretty big peak that is odd. My Klippel NFS microphone matches my Earthworks M23 microphone within 0.50dB which verified a couple weeks ago when another question came up. You can see this in the very last photo where the black line is my Earthworks M23 and the blue line is the Klippel NFS mic. IOW, I trust my data. It could be a unit variation but I didn’t measure both so I can’t say.

The cardioid design does lend use in regards to the front wall reflections being lessened above about 250Hz.

I saw discussion about noise. I didn’t listen for it but I can’t say I noticed any in my listening sessions. But again, I didn’t listen specifically for that.

Short term dynamic compression cuts the bass and treble but that’s pretty typical with this stimulus (quick sine sweep). However, with typical musical content - shown via the multitone compression - the compression is limited to about 1dB above 30Hz, but much higher below 30Hz.

Overall, for about $1800/pair, I think it’s a good speaker. Could use some tweaks and I imagine the company might be able to issue a firmware update if they are so inclined. It’s relatively compact, has cardioid performance above 250Hz, and a pretty even sweet spot, despite the flaring in the treble which causes the far-field listening to be treble heavy."

Don't see anything negative that could not be fixed with O11 integrated EQ (I don't care about the >16kHz peak). Would be good service to anyone reading his comment to add this information with regard to bass/treble. Besides that, I read good speaker, good SPL capability, usefull cardioid design, minimal compression with music down to 30Hz and again overall a good speaker for the price. Maybe there is more to say about a speaker, for which a lot of his followers asked for a review. Could follow as a video review - we will see.

 

[Audionaut]

For nearfield listening the overall response is otherwise great.

So it's safe to say that the speaker delivers excellent performance for exactly the purpose for which it was built.
What more could you ask for?

 

[heflys20]

So it's safe to say that the speaker delivers excellent performance for exactly the purpose for which it was built.
What more could you ask for?

I never said Erin's review was negative, I just quoted it. LOL.