PA speakers for home stereo ?

[Puddingbuks]

I’m considering these, RCF NXL14A

 

[gnarly]

Mark? @gnarly ? Small ported diy mid high with LTH142 there
View attachment 464773

Hi Flaesh, (yes Mark).

Those Live 210-T look like a nice, and little bit smaller, version of the DIY PM90/60live sound boxes. (for any who wonder, 90/60 means either a 90 or 60degree horn can be used.
The PM90/60's were what got me started into DIY, which has eventually led to large DIY synergy/MEH horns.

Some folks will no doubt think that the Live 210-T and PM90/60 are too big to listen to up close, not fit for home use.
My experience with the PM90/60 is the tight coupling of horn-loaded mids around the compression driver horn, allows for quite close listening if so desired, and quite distant too !! !
They sound great at low volume and high.

Same thing goes for big synergies...choose your listening distance and your SPL...and experience true unclipped, uncompressed sound.

 

[kemmler3D]

One thing I am curious about is the type of cabinets used in the various PA speakers available. Seems a lot have very light plastic enclosures for ease of transport. Presumably this is far from ideal sonicaly?
The Tannoys I use are in very heavily braced thick birch ply cabinets. Not great when it comes to moving them around, but I would assume that for home use, this is actually preferable.

Yep, with this type of cabinet you get a lot of leakage and you can often feel it flexing during bass notes. It's cheaper and lighter, and more or less adequate to the task, but tends to take these PAs out of the running for "hi-fi" usage IMO.

 

[Matt_Holland]

I’m considering these, RCF NXL14A

View attachment 465031

Well, they do play loud and aren’t too big.
Spinorama

 

[Puddingbuks]

Well, they do play loud and aren’t too big.
Spinorama

That looks terrible. Coming from Kef LS60 and Dutch & Dutch, this is a no go.

 

[Fledermaus]

That cabinet screams diffraction from every angle !

 

[Flaesh]

https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/Tannoy VQ100/Tannoy/index_vendor.html - Tannoy VQ100

 

[kevinsonic]

Not just in your country, brother. Beats took the US by storm but those headphones were total crap at the time. Popular doesn't always
mean good...

The fact that they are common does improve the odds a little. If nothing else it means they are built/ imported in large quantities so the low price is less of a red flag.


Sometimes you can do quick checks using a simple phone app. There are a few SPL meter apps, you can download one and use them to check your Sonics... then if you get a chance to demo the Omega speakers, run the same tests.

You can also use this (tone generator) to play sweeps and check for issues... listen for noticeable distortion, unsteady volume, buzzing / rattling, etc. Pink noise is also a great way to compare speakers.

Nice thank you, Unfortunately i only have the one sonics, pictured in my other topic and it has no tweeter left (my place got vandalized when i was away for 2 years)
But will try the app when i go to second hand dealers if i get a good price thanks

 

[kevinsonic]

In general, the lower 0.5 band is appropriate for home use. Not only for low frequency response, but also for speaker integration.
I haven't heard pro two-way designs with two woofers in a room, but I think it isn't hi-fi.
A friend uses stock Martins F215+ in normal living room.

So those XL07's would they sound better or worse than my AS255 sonics bookshelfs ? You might not be able to answer the question because you dont have the speakers i guess but if someone else could it would be nice.

 

[kevinsonic]

Okay but if that's the case Hifi/PA interested people should have written about them in your country. Have you checked Hifi/PA forums in your country?

Contact some reputable PA sellers.

For example, these in South Africa seem to be reputable. They sell well-known brands:
View attachment 464976

About Us - A1 Sound

At A1 Sound, our passion has always been rooted in one thing: delivering world-class audio, lighting, and studio gear to every customer who walks through our

a1sound.co.za

And ask them if they know the speakers, brand/model, you are interested in.

excellent idea, let me give them a buzz thanks

 

[kevinsonic]

OP, if these particular local PA speakers weren’t available, would you still be considering PA speakers? It is another way of asking if this thread is about PA speakers in general or a particular model of PA speaker?

First, it seems like parts for these speakers are ready available, support for these is big, second they are not expensive, third they look like they can produce good sound, now a lot of bad things can be said about speakers that is on a low price end, but also a lot of bad PR can make a lesser known inexpensive speaker "look bad" in the broader audio community whereas there are budget speakers "hidden gems" that sometimes outshine bigger brands, they are not abundant, but they are there.

This is above is the main concern i'm struggling with, these XL07s might be wonderful for my needs an a good upgrade to the sonics AS55s, or it might turn out to be a total disaster.

 

[kevinsonic]

I have the prior generation of these in my home:
JBL EON 710
I have a pair of JBL EON610, and a pair of JBL EON618s, so three-way for each of two stereo channels, bought about five years ago. They have on-board EQ, but I just EQ on my PC, since I have to have the PC for streaming and playing digital files anyway. They are in the workout room in the basement, so small space (probably about 3 meters x 5 meters) with a low ceiling of varying height, creating odd reflective surfaces. They work quite well, once I got them set up correctly, but it took some doing to find the right settings. With that much bass power, EQ is absolutely required for best results, but I get full range at ample volume. Personally, I wouldn’t be happy without at least one sub. The upper cabinets alone are not enough. I think you can get by with one sub just fine. I got two because I was experimenting, not knowing what I’m doing, and I wanted to err on the side of overdoing rather than under, since I was getting the cheaper 610 instead of the more expensive 612 or 615 (now the model numbers are 710, 712 and 715). In hind site, I would go with 715’s, and maybe skip the second sub. Really, I don’t find this set up to be lacking in any way. It is interesting to note that the tweeters used in these PA speakers are essentially the same compression drivers used in the HDI line of consumer speakers aimed at home use.
There are no fans in these, so no fan noise. There’s a tiny bit of hiss, but I can only hear it if I stick my ear right up next to the speaker when it isn’t playing. Not enough to bother me at all.
Now for the down side. The plate amp on one of the upper cabinets blew out about a year ago. My model is out of production, but I found an online place to purchase a replacement. After installing the new plate amp, some smoke and burning smell came out the back of it, but it kept sounding OK, so Forget It Drive On (FIDO). No sooner than I had that speaker back up and running, one of the subs blew a plate amp. So that’s the shortcoming of these. I haven’t bothered to replace the plate amp for the sub, since I can get along fine with just one. I’m thinking about simply mounting some terminals on the back and using an external amp.
Whatever you decide to go with, try to get used. You will pay less, and if they don’t work out, you’ll be able to resell them for a price that’s much closer to what you paid than if you get brand new.

Excellent, they are priced way out of my league, so the question is will i able able to get adequate sound out of those omega XL07's doing what you did.
Your speakers are Active, and much more expensive though.

 

[kevinsonic]

Yep, with this type of cabinet you get a lot of leakage and you can often feel it flexing during bass notes. It's cheaper and lighter, and more or less adequate to the task, but tends to take these PAs out of the running for "hi-fi" usage IMO.

how about stuffing it with heavy blankets and cushions

 

[kemmler3D]

how about stuffing it with heavy blankets and cushions

That can help with certain things, but speakers are designed to work with a certain amount of space inside, so if you change that by stuffing it a lot, you can throw off the frequency response, especially bass. You can add a decent amount to most cabinets before things get really messed up, but full cushions might be too much. Lots of DIY speaker builders add melamine foam, fiberglass, or dynamat-type materials to the inside surfaces of their cabinets.

 

[Ciobi69]

One thing I am curious about is the type of cabinets used in the various PA speakers available. Seems a lot have very light plastic enclosures for ease of transport. Presumably this is far from ideal sonicaly?
The Tannoys I use are in very heavily braced thick birch ply cabinets. Not great when it comes to moving them around, but I would assume that for home use, this is actually preferable.

on cheap PA speakers you will find it, on very good PA speakers they are dead solid, they have to be light and waterproof, you can't use MDF but birch plywood which is 3 times more expensive and lighter and his properties are similar to MDF , then the capacity to design a solid cabinet its all about the designer

 

[Flaesh]

AS255 sonics bookshelfs

I don't know anything about them. I've heard of some other similar vintage ones a long time ago. I wouldn't want one of those for my home.

 

[kevinsonic]

View attachment 465226
I don't know anything about them. I've heard of some other similar vintage ones a long time ago. I wouldn't want one of those for my home.

Yes, neither would i want those, those aren't great totally the opposite quality of the 255's that i have, my woofers aren't the thin paperish material, crossover was done well, with balanced mids and highs, i was lucky to have gotten one of the good models in the Sonics series.

This is mine minus the other bookshelf, but with better mids than the ones pictured on the right hand pair (photo off the net), as mentioned before my place got vandalized and i lost the other speaker due to that and the twitter of this one was ruined. because of that.

 

[kevinsonic]

on cheap PA speakers you will find it, on very good PA speakers they are dead solid, they have to be light and waterproof, you can't use MDF but birch plywood which is 3 times more expensive and lighter and his properties are similar to MDF , then the capacity to design a solid cabinet its all about the designer

The XL07's i'm looking at weighs 32kg a piece per the box, the fb photo seems to be blocked (shows up as a pink solid color) so cant show it here

 

[Alexei]

At the risk of being a Smart Alexei, would it be practical to hire a pair of PA speakers of the type in your budget for a few days in your location?
We have several PA hire companies in Aus. It’s an outlay but might give you an insight, in your listening area, about whether they deliver what you’re after.

 

[DanielT]

@kevinsonic Have you ever tried one or more subwoofers in your listening room? If not, then who knows, you might like it and be happy with that?
If you are in a fairly well-populated area, there should be quite a lot of used Hifi for sale. Buy speakers + sub, some well-known brand/model, that you can figure out a reasonable used price for. With the hifi stuff you can test. If you are happy keep the stuff, if not then sell it for about the same price.

By the way if you are unhappy with the bass in your listening room, if you previously thought it didn't sound good, it doesn't have to be the speakers. It could be the room's design, size that could be the cause, or a combo of specific speakers - room acoustics.

The room's influence on the lower frequencies is enormous. The effect referred to as: The Schroeder frequency

Room acoustics - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit:
Speakers that already have a real roller coaster in the bass frequency range can affect more (with bad luck for the worse with luck, but then you really have to be lucky, for the better) than neutral speakers.


So it's not just a question of the room's influence on the bass frequency/bass sound.
Super tiny satellite speakers for example, the room acoustics have no significance at around let's say around 20Hz -60 Hz because there is nothing there. Maybe an obvious thing to point out but still.

Good bass response, bass frequency/sound is solved via EQ. Make sure you have enough power in both speakers (or subwoofer) and amp when performing EQ operations. It is good to have headroom power to pick off so to speak.