PA speakers for home stereo ?

[kevinsonic]

First Great to finally be on the forum thanks !

I'll jump straight into my burning question.

Throughout the years of listening i found the tall thin towers underwhelming.

I had a set of 80s sonics that outplayed so many towers i've listened to but its time to really step up the game and upgrade. The conclusion i come to time after time after time is that Size DOES matter.

I feel the fancy furniture speakers, the exotic materials and the overblown marketing muddies the water so bad that you are torn between choosing a pretty pink elephant with ok sound vs great sound from an ugly PA system .

NOW i have not heard all towers so please i am not the king of audio listeners (thats why i'm here to ask questions) do correct me where i am wrong.

However, i also don't want to spend a fortune on those towers that actually does sound good that i never had a chance to listen to because they are so Expensive.

So my question is not to the rich having the latest and most expensive set of B@W's or AR's or whatnot. If the top of the line stuff sounds really good, then lucky you that you can afford it, i can't So my question is.

To those who have tried PA systems as a home stereo system.

i have a specific set of PA's that i am eyeing that i will be asking questions about in a later thread (mainly due to budget but also i have heard local praised them for being good PA speakers. (but have not gone as far as to ask them if they ever tried to use it as home stereo speakers)

SO what it comes down to, I am on a strict budget. Can i use a PA system as my home stereo. Will i be pleasantly surprized or horribly disappointed ?

 

[DanielT]

SO what it comes down to, I am on a strict budget. Can i use a PA system as my home stereo.

Yes. .......if you need it, that is.

Will i be pleasantly surprized or horribly disappointed ?

With good stuff pleasantly surprised, with bad stuff horribly disappointed, like so much else in life.

Do you need PA speakers? I mean do you like to listen at really high volumes? If that's not the case, then why PA speakers? High SPL is kind of the thing for PA speakers. That's what they're built for.
PA on low volume with fans from the PA amp making noise, with noise/hiss coming from a high powered amp/ highly sensitive speakers. Nope, not fun, BUT it drowns out when the volume is turned up.

How physically large speakers can you imagine having in your listening room? Approximate budget?

By the way, welcome to ASR.

 

[Curvature]

The better compromise for budget, for me, would be small speakers rather than large PA speakers. PA speakers tend to have strong resonances because they prioritize max output vs. smooth response.

 

[staticV3]

Hi @kevinsonic! Welcome to ASR.

SO what it comes down to, I am on a strict budget. Can i use a PA system as my home stereo.

Sure you can.

Will i be pleasantly surprized or horribly disappointed ?

Compared to traditional speakers, PA speakers go all in on headroom and sensitivity, sacrificing bass extension and frequency response smoothness in the process.

If you're considering an Active PA system, then lots of hiss will await you in a domestic environment. Ditto for passive PA speakers paired with old-school Amps.

 

[kemmler3D]

Welcome to ASR! good points in the thread so far.

PA speakers can be good for home use because the large size and large cones / baffles have certain benefits even at low volume.

However, you need to be aware of the trade-offs like @Curvature mentions.

The difference in quality between pro gear and home HiFi gear isn't actually that big if you're spending your money wisely. High quality PA speakers cost a lot too. Overpriced crap is common in consumer HiFi but if you manage to avoid it, the price / quality ratio won't be that far apart. And often good pro gear includes features or build quality that is irrelevant at home, but still costs money.

Unfortunately just using PAs at home is not an amazing audio life hack the way it might seem if you're comparing B&W to used stage gear.

The situation where PA makes the most sense is really just when you want maximum SPL and care less about everything else. If you care about all aspects of sound quality then you have to look at trade offs more closely.

 

[DanielT]

The better compromise for budget, for me, would be small speakers rather than large PA speakers. PA speakers tend to have strong resonances because they prioritize max output vs. smooth response.

Something like this. High power handling, high SPL, high sensitivity. FR well not that good, but with two of them you can certainly play loud. :

They need to be supplemented with bass boxes. Big bass boxes that don't go much lower than around 40 Hz (if we are going to stick to the PA track).

MAG Theatron M12-C Speaker Review

This is a review, listening tests, EQ and detailed measurements of the MAG Theatron M12-C center speaker. It was kindly drop shipped to me by a member and costs US $2,299. As you probably can tell, this is a very large speaker. I can imagine it has to be mounted behind a projection screen...

audiosciencereview.com

Or these that go down to around 40 Hz. Big ones the size of refrigerators. High SPL:

 

[Audio Science Pal]

I'll jump straight into my burning question.

Can i use a PA system as my home stereo?

Yes

 

[Flaesh]

Mitch Barnett is of course the main user)) of these speakers.

Can i use a PA system as my home stereo.

Yes. It might not be very cheap. I don't know how much it costs, but the tweeter retails for 550 €:

(for example)

IIRC there is already a thread like this here.

 

[thewas]

Like everything it is a compromise in the end with advantages and disadvantages and the only thing that matters is everyone finds the compromise that works best in the set of his limitations and priorities.

Here is a list of their disadvantages:

Post in thread 'Shouldn’t we be looking more at PA speakers?'

Jan 19, 2024

1. Size is a much more important constraint for home vs. stage use.
2. Having 10-20dB+ of headroom above the highest peak I ever want to listen to doesn't do me any good. I'm about as likely to hit 130dB as I am to light fireworks in my living room.
3. As you note, many have active cooling or deprioritize amp self-noise due to the intended application, they're not designed for quiet environments.
4. Driver integration might be a problem if your MLP isn't far.

Exactly all above, a friend of mine has a PA equipment event and rental company with a stock of approximately a...

• thewas

• 

 

[bachatero]

IT'S A TRAP! PA speakers don't sound "good" unless you drop big bucks, at which point you'd get a better experience on conventional speakers designed for lower volumes.

 

[Flaesh]

Regarding Driver integration might be a problem if your MLP isn't far.
If tweeter\woofer crossover is 800 or lower and listening distance about 3 m or more - such problems doesn't exist usually.
It doesn’t really matter whether it’s 4367, 4722, some Blumenhofer, PA or DIY.
Another thing is that there are not many such PA speakers, and those that exist are usually not cheap..

 

[DVDdoug]

"A speaker is a speaker" and a good PA speaker can (theoretically) sound just as good as a hi-fi speaker or studio monitor. Of course SOME PA speakers sound better than SOME home speakers.

There are good and not-so-good PA speakers... A real theater speaker might be closer to what you want but you'd lose any economic advantage.

ALL speakers involve many choices & compromises. Size is often compromised in home speakers. PA speakers need to be sensitive (more SPL-per-Watt) and they MAY sacrifice other characteristics of sound quality for loudness.

Pro subwoofers used live and in dance clubs usually sacrifice the lowest frequency range, rolling-off below about 40Hz in exchange for high bass SLP. The lowest note on a standard bass guitar is about 40Hz and that's low-enough for bass you can feel in your body, if it's loud enough. You can make a home subwoofer in a smaller box go-lower by sacrificing sensitivity and you don't need as much output to fill a living room with strong bass. It's not unusual for (good) home speakers/subs to go down to 20 Hz.

You can often rent PA speakers and that would give you the opportunity to try them out in your home environment before buying. Who knows... They may refund the rental fee if you buy them.

...I have a thing for big speakers and I have a HUGE DIY "speaker stack" in my living room with a pair of large 15-inch subs on the bottom. It's LOOKS a lot like a PA setup but there are no horns and it really can't take the power of a live band. But I have used the setup for a couple of DJ gigs (in a slightly different configuration before I added the subs).

 

[kemmler3D]

Also, following up on this point:

I feel the fancy furniture speakers, the exotic materials and the overblown marketing muddies the water so bad that you are torn between choosing a pretty pink elephant with ok sound vs great sound from an ugly PA system .

If you want to get the best sound for your budget, here's the shortcut:

• Decide up front what your priorities are - good frequency response, lots of bass, high SPL, good soundstage, etc? (take into account how big your room is, how loud you like to listen, and what kind of sound you enjoy most.)
• Ignore all marketing.
• Ignore most reviews.
• Find reviews with objective measurements (like here, Erin's Audio Corner, @Ageve's posts, and a few other places)
• Find speakers with good objective reviews that are around 2x your budget new.
• Go on secondhand sites and wait until those speakers come up for sale.

Your ideal speaker may or may not be a PA speaker. Depends on your priorities. Membership here can help steer you toward specific speakers if you lay out your situation (room size mostly), goals, budget, likes and dislikes.

 

[Flaesh]

Who wants to listen to such bass at home?..
We need to shorten PRX's ports at and it will be closer to Wilson!

 

[DanielT]

The question is how high volume you @kevinsonic listen to?

There are good home Hifi speakers that have the ability to sound good even if they are played at high volume. An example, these floor-standing speakers, placed in a normal-sized living/listening room. I think their SPL is more than enough for most people:

HECO Aurora 1000, with dual 8 inch bass drivers:
POWER HANDLING (RMS/MAX)
230 / 380 watts

I measured the sensitivity to be 90.9dB for 2.83v at 1 meter, which is a bit below HECO's 93dB sensitivity spec. Even so, 90.9 (let's call it 91 dB) makes the Aurora 1000s a bit above average in sensitivity, and you don't need a monster amp to get these things loud. A hundred watts should be capable of pushing it to pretty darn loud levels, 110dB at one meter anechoically, and that is quite a bit louder than most people would ever listen to.

The speakers could take the higher volume levels without complaint, and I think I would need a more powerful amp to get them into trouble. My 120-watt RMS per channel amp was more than sufficient for the loudness level I could tolerate, and I am sure that level is likely more than what most people would crank these speakers at. Lead synths and vocals remained crystal clear at any loudness level, and the snares had the snap I would have expected of a live drum kit. One highlight (among many) was the track “Villain's Cowl,” and the last track “Horizon” sounded terrific at a high level. These speakers killed it with "Not Forever," and anyone looking for a speaker that can rock without breaking a sweat at a reasonable price has a great option in the Aurora 1000s.

HECO Aurora 1000 Floorstanding Loudspeaker Review

The German made Heco Aurora 1000 floor-standing speakers ($799/ea) were put through the wringer with our in depth measurement testing and yielded surprising results. Are these the speakers to get?

www.audioholics.com

For those who want a lot of the lowest bass, add a subwoofer with them. A pair of floor-standing speakers with good frequency response for around $1300.
I think that's a good price for a pair of well-performing speakers.

 

[DanielT]

Mitch Barnett is of course the main user)) of these speakers.
View attachment 464521

If you have the space for such a system, plus the wallet to go with it, absolutely. As long as, if I had it, it was also possible to play at lower volumes without there being much audible noise/hiss.
It is possible that that solution at low volumes is relatively noise/hiss free, I should add. I know nothing about that.

Big subwoofers in that solution:

OWNER'S COMMENTS: Pass Amp Camp Amp (ACA) 1.1 by Mitch Barnett

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

Edit:
Speaking of SPL, this is what @gnarly wrote about his speakers, which have dual 18 inch drivers:

You know, I realize folks can't help but look at a huge speaker setup like that and see nothing but SPL.
And think what the heck.....who can even use a speaker like that.

SPL is not what that rig is about....it is my attempt at the highest sound quality i think i can achieve.
Yes, High linear SPL, ......completely uncompressed, unclipped, undistorted for both average and peaks...... across the spectrum and down to the very bottom....... IS a part of the formula.

But believe it or not, it's a quite delicate sounding speaker, with clarity and a tonal vibrancy I think is best I've heard to date....
A lot of work went into trying to achieve a point source like behaviour with low intermodulation potential, and excellent transient response.

Two 18n862's are in the sub box below the top white horn
46"W x 40"H x 29"D (not including built in castor wheels height)

Ultra-low frequency Rotary Subwoofer

What is this? Ultra-low frequency Rotary Subwoofer I've never heard of. Seems exciting. Anyone know anything more about it? Is it possible to get it for Hifi? Or? I have no idea.:) So for frequencies in if the audible range above 19 Hz? But how to solve it? What would you gain from that? That...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Flaesh]

Big subwoofers in that solution:

These are small subwoofers. For such large speakers. Link in signature - about cheap subwoofers with pro drivers. You can do the same using some ready-made pro subs.

the space for such a system, plus the wallet to go with it

4х5 m room or more or ever slightly less.
UR MAX2 for inspiration:

Parts cost about 1000 for one. Cheaper drivers may be used. And furniture a la 4722, simple (black) box with suitable horn\WG sitting on top.

Unfortunately, cheap PA speakers usually have a small driver in a small horn, the crossover can be 2k, the bass can be as shown above. And the amplifiers can hiss in active speakers. I recently bought myself 3 pcs. Fosi B3 stereo and Flex8, it practically does not hiss.

 

[DanielT]

These are small subwoofers. For such large speakers. Link in signature - about cheap subwoofers with pro drivers. You can do the same using some ready-made pro subs.

In relation to the JBL speakers, okay, you have a point there. As such, compared to other (Hifi) subwoofers, then I think they are quite beefy.

Of course, no one interested in good sound / Hifi wants a solution that starts to sound bad at high volume. Then there is the subjective question of what this high volume is? Plus how long you play at this high volume. I saw that Erin published a video about this recently. You know this, but maybe others who read this thread can find something useful in the video below.

Erin's video is about speaker compression which results in reduced output, which has (may have depending on the extent) consequences for FR and/or distortion levels. Erin takes up two speakers, with measurements, to show how compression manifests itself.:

By the way, @kevinsonic do you now have the opportunity, for example via a free dB app, to measure your listening level?

 

[kevinsonic]

Thanks for replying, these are the speakers:

https://cellandtec.com/products/speaker-omega-x-l07

They are locally made so i guess thats why the price is good but i am battling to get information on them, one DJ though said he is pleased with these speakers. and that it's good deep bass. But that is in a GIG scene.

My setup, just a normal room 15x15 square meters. and occasionally outside (i live on a smallholding)

Can one equalize these speakers out ?

For over 25 years i was happy with my AS-255 sonics speakers, but when i moved out someone punched in the cones of one speaker to my horror the speakers were ruined.

Since then all the towers i've listened to ad friends and some stores did not give that bass and reasonably good clarity i had with these old sonics speakers.

Now i want something that can replace them, but also something that i can play loud often outside occasionally.

Would these Omega speakers above work ?

Here's the amp

Omega AMP-AV97234 400 W AV Power Amplifier | Makro

Shop Omega AMP-AV97234 400 W AV Power Amplifier at Makro. Enjoy secure shopping with 100% reliable delivery, great prices and many ways to pay.

www.makro.co.za

 

[kevinsonic]