PA Speakers at home

[iamdan]

If it was the accessible sound pressure level, then an additional subwoofer may be the relief to all your desires

I currently have two SVS PB 1000 Pros that deliver plenty of bass, so I don't think the low end will be an issue. My current speakers are a very amateur diy build that does the trick for the most part, but I'm looking for an alternative that:

- is built by someone competent unlike myself
- has a high sensitivity and a smooth frequency response

To make an analogy with cars, I'd like something that goes 0-100 in less than 5 seconds, while not particularly caring about the top speed.

Another alternative that caught my attention was RCF M1201, but they have a weird euroblock connector which I'm not too sure how I'd integrate in my setup.

What would you recommend @fineMen ?

 

[DBA ndreas]

Recommendation: KV2 ESD 6. When high passed at 80 Hz they will deliver quite extreme SPL and excellent SQ. I think for home listening there is no need for 12“ midwoofers.

 

[fineMen]

I currently have two SVS PB 1000 Pros that deliver plenty of bass, so I don't think the low end will be an issue.

I see; the efficiency is dictated by the enclosure volume, type ported vs. sealed and the lower f3, the bass extension. If you could separate the bass, then the f3 for the other speaker is allowed to rise which in turn allows to rise efficiency dramatically.

My current speakers are a very amateur diy build that does the trick for the most part, but I'm looking for an alternative that:
- is built by someone competent unlike myself
- has a high sensitivity and a smooth frequency response

Special interest asks for diy. For instance, I've found a smaller box with a pretty normal 6" bass/mid driver that brings a believable 92dB/w to the table. It would nearly quadruple the equivalent power of your setup (double every 3dB). Otherwise, I would have recommended an 8" p/a bass plus a waveguided dome tweeter.

Now that diy isn't an option, I could only say that p/a can't do wonders. It is just another set of compromises, losing bass extension first. Second is the sound dispersion. P/a actually wants sound to be directed sharply, but at home nearly all people prefer a wider sound radiation--wide in terms of p/a. Bigger bass/mid drivers show nasty directivity errors when combined with a likewise bigger horn. That problem is prominently seen with the specimen you suggested initially. Not the least the clarity is often compromised. Bad examples, and there are many, may be described as screechy.

Wasn't there a small JBL monitor tested here, that was designed for a bit of power?

 

[Chr1]

Recommendation: KV2 ESD 6. When high passed at 80 Hz they will deliver quite extreme SPL and excellent SQ. I think for home listening there is no need for 12“ midwoofers.

These are rated at 92db and 16 Ohms. They may need more power than the OPs Audiolab 6000A.

I am currently using Tannoy V12s which are 12" coaxial PA speakers. They work well but like most speakers of this type need subs and EQ.

 

[DBA ndreas]

The Audiolab 6000A has pre outs for a nice power amp, so it could still be used. The OP should also use some kind of high pass filter for best performance.

 

[Chr1]

The Audiolab 6000A has pre outs for a nice power amp, so it could still be used. The OP should also use some kind of high pass filter for best performance.

I am not sure that a high pass filter is really necessary. One of the benefits of this type of speaker is that, as they don't go deep they present a fairly benign load to the amplifier. (Though the KV2 ESD 6s being 16 Ohm will be different, I suspect.) I use mine with active twin subs connected to the amp high level and EQd with MathAudio's free RoomEQ. Simple setup, works well and goes loud. Anything better that can do big SPLs would be well out of my budget.

 

[DBA ndreas]

Smaller midbass drivers (6 inch, 8 inch) gain headroom with high pass filters. With 12 inch midbass drivers you`re right - it will not be so important for most situations in the living room.

 

[Schollaudio]

Interesting! is 90 degree better for larger or smaller rooms? Mine is around 30-35 square meters.

It depends. Where you sit, your sweet spot and how bright or dead your room is, how much coverage you want, how many other listeners are with you or just yourself.

That's the benefit of horns, you can choose the horns coverage to fit the needs of the room or desires of the listeners.

I find in my normal household rooms that are 4 by 6 meters or 24 sq that 90s are best. YMMV

 

[Philbo King]

I have two of these that I use for live performance and occasional live jams in my studio. They're old, from around 2006, but solid performers. They do roll off fast below 50 Hz but that's not a problem for me; I don't play back pipe organ bass through them. The (combined) 800 watts power provides a serious punch. https://www.ebay.com/p/1401555174
(Mine don't look quite as ragged as the Ebay photo)

They are far from flat though. I have done EQ IRs for each in the past but don't really use them for critical listening like mixing or mastering so I don't normally bother with applying digital EQ correction.

 

[fieldcar]

They are far from flat though.

Anechoic response looks decent to me.

 

[ooheadsoo]

Could this be something for you?

DIYSG HTM-12v2 Review

This is a copy/paste from my site and there may be formatting issues here because of that. You can see the full review on my site. https://erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/diysg_htm12v2/ DIYSG HTM-12v2 Speaker Review Saturday, Jun 12, 2021 Foreword / YouTube Video Review The review on...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I have these. They sound great, and the biggest advantage, IMO, is that they're one of the only PA style speakers I know of that have been run on the Klippel NFS, and you can get eq filters for them.

 

[Philbo King]

Anechoic response looks decent to me.
View attachment 247393

Thanks for posting the FR curve!

Yeah, they are not too bad. Actually they are pretty exceptional for PA gear. My IR included compensation for the room and speaker positions, so they got a little more extreme looking than the anechoic curve. They are about 15 feet apart on tripod stands, with the center of the horns 6' 6" high, and the measurement mic listening position about 12' back, at ear height, on a sofa.

My wife (a total bass addict) likes me to fire them up and crank them a bit for watching movies on the studio PC.

 

[Rednaxela]

Wasn't there a small JBL monitor tested here, that was designed for a bit of power?

These perhaps?

JBL SRX835P Reviewed (Powered Monitor)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the JBL SRX835P "PA/DJ" powered speaker. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $1,699. Note: our company, Madrona Digital is a dealer for Harman and hence JBL line. So feel free to read whatever bias you feel necessary in my subjective...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Rednaxela]

I have these. They sound great, and the biggest advantage, IMO, is that they're one of the only PA style speakers I know of that have been run on the Klippel NFS, and you can get eq filters for them.

Cool!

There’s also these:

Not Klippeled, but certainly optimised for smooth directivity.

S15 - Econowave DSP

The Original S15 Econowave DSP Eminence Beta 12a + Selenium D220Ti & Pyle WG (C1-W1-CD1) Econowave is a cost effective control...

gainphile.blogspot.com

 

[ooheadsoo]

I figured I should share this new Erin's audio corner video on a diy PA style speaker with resonance issues. It appears far worse than the speakers discussed here, but it gives a good illustration of what to watch out for in these style of speakers.

Wasn't this shared on the first page? There's a Paracord surround fix that addresses part of the resonance issue.

 

[ooheadsoo]

Cool!

There’s also these:

Not Klippeled, but certainly optimised for smooth directivity.

S15 - Econowave DSP

The Original S15 Econowave DSP Eminence Beta 12a + Selenium D220Ti & Pyle WG (C1-W1-CD1) Econowave is a cost effective control...

gainphile.blogspot.com

The econowaves were at the forefront of this diy movement, but in terms of getting a good linear response at the end of the day, you'll do better with the HTM offering because of the Klippel data. Although I'm not sure if it's still in stock or discounted.

 

[peanuts2]

s15 is a dsp design, im pretty sure you can easely get it to measure better than htm-12.
i also built them, they are fine. they are loud and fatigue free, but my problem with all of these types of speakers i have listened to is the poor flat midrange. something a frequency response wont show. the cone is just too big and heavy. you need as low crossover as possible, which will increase the size of the waveguide and price of compression driver significantly.
most eminence woofers iv tried also have midbass kick, but it doesnt feel refined, somewhat monotone for a lack of a better word.
i guess it depends on what music and volume you listen to. for example my linkwtiz lxmini cant replace the s15, or the other way around. i interchange them depending on what im going to listen to mostly.

 

[ooheadsoo]

s15 is a dsp design, im pretty sure you can easely get it to measure better than htm-12.
i also built them, they are fine. they are loud and fatigue free, but my problem with all of these type of speakers i have listened to is the poor flat midrange. something a frequency response wont show. the cone is just too big and heavy. you need as low crossover as possible, which will increase the size of the waveguide and price of compression driver significantly.
most eminence woofers iv tried also have midbass kick, but it doesnt feel refined, somewhat monotone for a lack of a better word.
i guess it depends on what music and volume you listen to. for example my linkwtiz lxmini cant replace the s15, or the other way around. i interchange them depending on what im going to listen to mostly.

Very interesting, it seems we've been building similar speakers. I, too, built some lx minis which I then converted to modified lx studios because I didn't want to shell out for the original seas woofers. Ultimately, I've stuck with the HTMs much longer at this point. I'm not sure what you mean about the flat midrange. For most of my listening, I'll take the HTMs. I agree the bass could be more articulate, though I definitely did not experience better bass with the LX mini or studios.

 

[fieldcar]

Wasn't this shared on the first page? There's a Paracord surround fix that addresses part of the resonance issue.

I see the link now. It was to his website, which I didn't click on. Whoops.

 

[pierre]

Howdy all,

I'm looking to upgrading my current music setup at home, as I've found myself steering the volume knob on my Audiolab 6000A to the right more and more lately. The amp is rated 50W per channel at 8 ohms, my speakers (an amateur DIY project, emphasis on amateur) have a sensitivity of 87 db and it seems it's just shy enough for me to enjoy it to the maximum at my listening position 3m away. I love the 6000A though, it has a lot of features (like functioning as both an integrated amp and just a pre amp), so I don't have any plans of changing it for the time being.

Here's a thought that has been bugging me lately: "Hey, why not bring the concert at home? There's got to be a PA speaker that can both get loud enough and not sound like trash!". So I did some research and found the Turbosound NuQ122. They have plywood housing, a sensitivity of 96db, and a pretty smooth frequency response for a PA speaker (at least compared to the 40-ish other PA offerings I checked during my research). My room is big enough for these, and on top of that a local dealer currently has them on sale for 15% off.

I guess I was kinda looking for an equivalent to Klipsch Heresy IVs, cause I dig their design, but my god they are unfathomably overpriced. That's why I stopped on the NuQ122s, as they demolish the Heresy IVs in terms of specs and frequency response, and most importantly, are less than half the cost.

What do you think? Is this worth a shot? I plan on trying them out at the local dealership, although I'm sure the experience won't be the same as at home. My other concern is how to actually wire them to the amp: the NuQ122s have an NL4 SpeakOn connector on the back, so I was planning to buy an NL2 SpeakON speaker cable, cut it in half (so I have two separate cables), then stick banana plugs to both ends. Would this work?

Have you had any experience with PA speakers at home? How did it go?

Cheers!

Here is the spinorama for the Turbosound NuQ122 (spinorama).