Owners' threads on ASR

[RickSanchez]

Reading through the "ASR Long-Term Plans" post by @pozz made me think about how the site could improve. One idea I had -- and wanted to get thoughts from members -- is:

• We should consider doing more to encourage people to open up owners' threads.

Admittedly, there could be general ethos reasons why this isn't encouraged: e.g., "ASR is a measurement site, and that's what makes it unique". Or there could be good reasons related to web traffic. I suppose only Amir and other ASR leadership could speak to that.

For me personally I think having owners' threads would be a better way to try to organize some of the content on ASR, which is growing significantly. I regularly find the measurements are really interesting in the first several pages of posts, and then start to devolve into ownership-related issues. So it can often be difficult over time to find some of the meaningful comments / insights / updates -- related to the measurements of a device -- that are buried 20+ pages into a thread.

My general idea is:

1. Keep the measurement threads the way they are and in the same locations.
2. Add a new section for owners' threads. Maybe this is at the same top level as "Audio, Audio, Audio!" or maybe it's a section underneath "Audio, Audio, Audio!".
3. I'm not proposing any strict rules. People will post where they post; I don't think we need to police that. But ideally there's a way we can encourage people to open up owners' threads, and encourage members to ask owner-related questions / post owner-related info on those threads instead of in the measurement threads.

Some examples of content better-suited for an owners' thread:

• Firmware updates
• The classic "Is anyone else experiencing this issue ..." question
• Compatibility questions
• Availability / pricing
• Configuration questions

An example of a really good owners' thread is the one for the Sabaj D5. An example of a measurement thread that could sorely use an owners' thread: the Soncoz SGD1. Don't get me wrong, Ben1987 has done an incredible job answering questions but so much of that content -- IMO -- seems better placed in an owners' thread.

Food for thought, and curious to hear what other ASR members think.

 

[Hipper]

Let's say I'm looking for a particular piece of kit. Bearing in mind the principles of this site this is how I should do it:

1. Start by looking at measurements. These measurements are listed on here in order of results.

2. I look at the reviews on here and then go further by checking out (not just on this site) connections, size and all the other stuff that might make it suit my circumstances, including of course availability to me. Hopefully I will then have a few choices.

3. Only then does the manufacturer's name become important. I shouldn't look only at a specific manufacturer as that isn't following the science. I agree this become a bit more difficult with speakers, and certainly speaker types.

Therefore I don't see the necessity of having owners thread on here. They can be found on other sites, they are not needed for the purpose of this site, and I would think it is possible that some of them could become quite partisan and troublesome - imagine a PSAudio thread.

 

[pozz]

Therefore I don't see the necessity of having owners thread on here. They can be found on other sites, they are not needed for the purpose of this site, and I would think it is possible that some of them could become quite partisan and troublesome - imagine a PSAudio thread.

Good points.

As discussed in this thread too, reviews are supplemented by feedback from owners. @DDF had the idea to informationalize buyer experiences by introducing a voting system for each reviewed product which would flag issues with drivers, ground loops and so on. It makes sense but would require a large sample size, which would leave the less popular and less well-known products out.

 

[Soniclife]

I'm strongly in favour of something that separates user opinions from a measurement thread, those threads should be kept for posts directly relating to the measurement or review, so they don't get to 1000s of posts with only the odd post directly relating to the thread title.

 

[Soniclife]

Therefore I don't see the necessity of having owners thread on here. They can be found on other sites, they are not needed for the purpose of this site, and I would think it is possible that some of them could become quite partisan and troublesome - imagine a PSAudio thread.

Are you in favour of not having that content here at all?

 

[Thomas savage]

As has been mentioned this is already happening but it's lost in the review threads.

Siphoning that part out and into its own ' user / owner ' thread(s) would be good imo.

 

[Sal1950]

As has been mentioned this is already happening but it's lost in the review threads.

Who's hammer is that, did you steal it?

 

[Berwhale]

I agree with the sentiment, however, I don't see how you could enforce separation of measurement and owners posts without locking the measurement thread. The alternative would be for the mods to move the 'owner' posts and remind the poster of the rules. I see this a lot in other forums, it looks like a thankless task, to say the least. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, especially our esteemed mods on ASR.

 

[RickSanchez]

I agree with the sentiment, however, I don't see how you could enforce separation of measurement and owners posts without locking the measurement thread. The alternative would be for the mods to move the 'owner' posts and remind the poster of the rules. I see this a lot in other forums, it looks like a thankless task, to say the least. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, especially our esteemed mods on ASR.

Completely agreed. I wouldn't expect to have any mods (or Amir) enforcing the content of the measurement threads to ensure some sort of data integrity. But just having a formal spot for owners' threads -- especially for certain equipment where the manufacturer (or their rep) is an ASR member -- I think is worth trying. It would likely be up to senior members to encourage people to use owner's thread if the measurement thread starts to veer off course.

Like I mentioned above, the Sabaj D5 owners' thread is a decent example of what this could look like on ASR: a ton of posts mostly about firmware, answering "what headphones can I use with this?", etc. Is it a huge win? Maybe not, but that's 10 pages worth of posts about the Sabaj D5 that aren't cluttering up the measurement thread.

 

[Berwhale]

This may be stating the obvious, but I think I detect a difference between measurement threads for equipment sent to Amirm by the manufacturer, often before it is released, and those for equipment that is already in circulation and perhaps owned by several ASR members.

This difference is particularly noticeable in threads for new equipment that measures well, offers SOTA performance or great value, e.g. D5, D90, Atom, Heresy, etc. These threads tend to generate purchases by ASR members and non-members alike (which in turn generates more membership). I think this difference it even more apparent for devices that combine functionality (i.e. DAC/Amps) where there is wider scope for discussion of features and performance.

So creating owners threads for popular items like the D5 seems worthwhile, but creation of owners threads for all measured items will simply result in a lot of sparsely populated or empty owners threads. Personally, I don't think that having lots of threads like this would be good for the forum.

 

[Jimbob54]

Reading through the "ASR Long-Term Plans" post by @pozz made me think about how the site could improve. One idea I had -- and wanted to get thoughts from members -- is:

• We should consider doing more to encourage people to open up owners' threads.

Admittedly, there could be general ethos reasons why this isn't encouraged: e.g., "ASR is a measurement site, and that's what makes it unique". Or there could be good reasons related to web traffic. I suppose only Amir and other ASR leadership could speak to that.

For me personally I think having owners' threads would be a better way to try to organize some of the content on ASR, which is growing significantly. I regularly find the measurements are really interesting in the first several pages of posts, and then start to devolve into ownership-related issues. So it can often be difficult over time to find some of the meaningful comments / insights / updates -- related to the measurements of a device -- that are buried 20+ pages into a thread.

My general idea is:

1. Keep the measurement threads the way they are and in the same locations.
2. Add a new section for owners' threads. Maybe this is at the same top level as "Audio, Audio, Audio!" or maybe it's a section underneath "Audio, Audio, Audio!".
3. I'm not proposing any strict rules. People will post where they post; I don't think we need to police that. But ideally there's a way we can encourage people to open up owners' threads, and encourage members to ask owner-related questions / post owner-related info on those threads instead of in the measurement threads.

Some examples of content better-suited for an owners' thread:

• Firmware updates
• The classic "Is anyone else experiencing this issue ..." question
• Compatibility questions
• Availability / pricing
• Configuration questions

An example of a really good owners' thread is the one for the Sabaj D5. An example of a measurement thread that could sorely use an owners' thread: the Soncoz SGD1. Don't get me wrong, Ben1987 has done an incredible job answering questions but so much of that content -- IMO -- seems better placed in an owners' thread.

Food for thought, and curious to hear what other ASR members think.

Agree totally. Some of the more "important" products measured (read- populist) very quickly turn into firmware issues and/or delivery updates (really?) . But I fear that will be the case regardless of how hard the management and members try and steer it away .

 

[pozz]

So creating owners threads for popular items like the D5 seems worthwhile, but creation of owners threads for all measured items will simply result in a lot of sparsely populated or empty owners threads. Personally, I don't think that having lots of threads like this would be good for the forum.

Agreed. What if they weren't mandatory but existed in their own subforum? When necessary, like if the measurement thread becomes bloated or multiple threads pop up for popular models, posts/threads could be moved there.

 

[Jimbob54]

This may be stating the obvious, but I think I detect a difference between measurement threads for equipment sent to Amirm by the manufacturer, often before it is released, and those for equipment that is already in circulation and perhaps owned by several ASR members.

This difference is particularly noticeable in threads for new equipment that measures well, offers SOTA performance or great value, e.g. D5, D90, Atom, Heresy, etc. These threads tend to generate purchases by ASR members and non-members alike (which in turn generates more membership). I think this difference it even more apparent for devices that combine functionality (i.e. DAC/Amps) where there is wider scope for discussion of features and performance.

So creating owners threads for popular items like the D5 seems worthwhile, but creation of owners threads for all measured items will simply result in a lot of sparsely populated or empty owners threads. Personally, I don't think that having lots of threads like this would be good for the forum.

You said what I meant both better AND before me

 

[amirm]

I think it is natural for people to put their questions/comments in review threads because it has a high chance of being noticed. We have had a few "owner's threads" but they have not attracted a lot of attention. I know I ignore owner's threads for example whereas I keep up with most of what is in review threads.

In other words, I don't know that this is the organization that will be used. On other forums owner feedback is all they have since they don't do reviews and such so the structure and who they are is made around that. We are different here so I don't know that this will work.

Of course, any of you can create an owner's thread on anything and experiment. I could make an Owner's Threads forum if you like but I worry about it sitting there empty and looking bad as a result.

 

[Jimbob54]

Who's hammer is that, did you steal it?

Thor's slightly inept, pug ugly brother, Thunk.

Superpowers: Innate wonkiness and the ability to tarnish all he touches.

 

[pozz]

I think it is natural for people to put their questions/comments in review threads because it has a high chance of being noticed. We have had a few "owner's threads" but they have not attracted a lot of attention. I know I ignore owner's threads for example whereas I keep up with most of what is in review threads.

In other words, I don't know that this is the organization that will be used. On other forums owner feedback is all they have since they don't do reviews and such so the structure and who they are is made around that. We are different here so I don't know that this will work.

Of course, any of you can create an owner's thread on anything and experiment. I could make an Owner's Threads forum if you like but I worry about it sitting there empty and looking bad as a result.

Semi-related, do you have any thoughts about a Technical Issues subforum?

 

[Promit]

I don’t like the owner threads much on AVS. Here are nine hundred pages about every speaker your brand has ever made, with no semblance of organization or searchability. Have fun digging through it, or just do what everyone does and repost the same question for the twelfth time!

I get why they have things set up that way and I’m not sure there is an alternative without forum software designed around that type of discussion in the first place. But I still don’t like it.

 

[amirm]

Semi-related, do you have any thoughts about a Technical Issues subforum?

You mean product specific ones? If so, it sets us up to be the customer service for companies which wouldn't be a good idea. I already get a lot of those private messages!

 

[amirm]

I don’t like the owner threads much on AVS. Here are nine hundred pages about every speaker your brand has ever made, with no semblance of organization or searchability. Have fun digging through it, or just do what everyone does and repost the same question for the twelfth time!

I get why they have things set up that way and I’m not sure there is an alternative without forum software designed around that type of discussion in the first place. But I still don’t like it.

I agree. The threads go for hundreds of pages and have so much varied content in them that it is hard to sort through them as well.

 

[pozz]

You mean product specific ones? If so, it sets us up to be the customer service for companies which wouldn't be a good idea. I already get a lot of those private messages!

More for issue-specific/troubleshooting threads, which tend to be repetitive. Members could browse them there to find solutions that have worked for others.

The product-specific ones like the polarity thread on the E30 could stay where they are since they concern product issues rather than setup or config issues.

Troubleshooting Forum. Something of that kind.