Output stage : Wiim Amp vs (disappointing) Wiim Amp Ultra

[john61ct]

Separates does give greater flexibilty.

Ultra + 3e A7 is my top choice in that power range

 

[Ruediger]

Separates does give greater flexibilty.

Ultra + 3e A7 is my top choice in that power range

It's a tiny bit more expensive here with the big GaN psu compared to the Vibelink.

But I can recommend it too. Even more with a source with balanced output, something WiiM doesn't do right now.

 

[john61ct]

I'll test with my Aphex 124b

 

[Bernard23]

My 2p worth, it's possible that your marantz wasn't the most clean sounding amps, especially after a decade of use and that you actually like that coloured sound. Sometimes upgrading to better quality electronics doesn't sound more exciting, sometimes the opposite.
Use the EQ in the Ultra to bring it to life ie adjust the flavour to your taste. Try the different roomfit targets and see how those sound. I used to think bit perfect was the holy grail until I realised that I prefer a bit of colour, after all it's about enjoyment not the truth.

 

[Bernard23]

Can't do anything wrong with the Ultra.

Maybe a look at the Yamaha A-S line of amps is a good match for what you seek. Just wanted to add that as a recommendation.

The a-s501 doesn't "punch harder" than any of the current crop of cheap class D stars. I had a pair of Fosi V3 monos and the Yamaha and they sound the same.

 

[john61ct]

For $99 you can even see if you like a "tube sound" - Schiit Buf

 

[antcollinet]

My ears.

Your ears and your brain.

We know that our hearing is subject to perceptive bias. What we hear is impacted by what we know, what we believe, how we feel, our life experiences, what we see etc etc. No-one is immune to this if they are human - it is how we are built. In fact we would be unable to function if our senses were not filtered by our unconscious brain. Everyone is subject to this, it happens at the unconscious level, and it is not possible to avoid it - even when we are aware it is happening.

This is why sighted listing comparisons are unreliable. Especially when direct comparison -as in your case - is impossible.

You literally cannot "trust your ears" without controlled, blind comparisons.

 

[Paul7777x]

Have a look at this from Marantz.

It’s barely fit for purpose…

 

[Ruediger]

It's 13 years old or so.

 

[Emilio75]

Hey guys, it would be so nice that you stop telling me I was wrong enjoying this Marantz CR610 during 10 years and that I’m wrong being disappointed by Wiim Amp.

It’s ridiculous, it’s unpleasant, and it’s disrespectful.

When I disagree with someone, I say « I disagree », I don’t say « you’re completely wrong ».

Listening to music is not doing Math or Physics. I don’t care at all my system having -80 or -90dB THD. Really.

Even though I’m an engineer and I do like numbers as much as you all do, I’m also a musician and I want to feel the music in my living room. Period.

My living room is not an audio lab.

It’s a L I V I N G room.

By the way, for what it’s worth, I’m very happy to welcome back a Wiim Ultra. It fits well with the Tangent Ampster through Toslink set to 24/192. Happy to re-set RoomFit too. The sound is well-balanced, punchy, bass are sharp, clean and powerful. Amazing sound, and for a super price (530€ for both devices). I may test a Hypex nCore in a while by curiosity. For now, let’s forget technology and enjoy music !

I won’t reply anymore here, you can go ahead and insult me, go go go, let the pack unleash its fury, please be clever, be funny, be brilliant, love each other posts, have fun !
And don’t disappoint me

 

[john61ct]

There certainly are plenty of other places where such attitudes are tolerated, even encouraged. Best of luck to you!

 

[Discharge]

They're a fairly abrasive bunch but they're trying to help you understand that the amps job is reflecting the recording and the Wiim does that very well, it's entirely possible that you had a bad amp but that's a variable that you cant realistically resolve without testing.

You're in the wrong place if you want to lean into the audiophile area of the hobby, I would suggest r/audiophile Subreddit often lean toward subjective experiential discussions.

 

[LTig]

Hey guys, it would be so nice that you stop telling me I was wrong enjoying this Marantz CR610 during 10 years and that I’m wrong being disappointed by Wiim Amp.

It’s ridiculous, it’s unpleasant, and it’s disrespectful.

When I disagree with someone, I say « I disagree », I don’t say « you’re completely wrong ».

Nobody said that you are wrong. Preferences are personal and accepted. If on the other hand you cannot accept that you might have a preference for non accurate sound this is your problem, not others. IMV it's disrespectful to blame other people who just try to help you and to understand what's going on.

Listening to music is not doing Math or Physics. I don’t care at all my system having -80 or -90dB THD. Really.

That's clear, and neither do I.

Even though I’m an engineer and I do like numbers as much as you all do, I’m also a musician and I want to feel the music in my living room. Period.

So do I, and many others here as well.

My living room is not an audio lab.

It’s a L I V I N G room.

Same here, no need to C R Y L O U D.

By the way, for what it’s worth, I’m very happy to welcome back a Wiim Ultra. It fits well with the Tangent Ampster through Toslink set to 24/192. Happy to re-set RoomFit too. The sound is well-balanced, punchy, bass are sharp, clean and powerful. Amazing sound, and for a super price (530€ for both devices). I may test a Hypex nCore in a while by curiosity. For now, let’s forget technology and enjoy music !

I won’t reply anymore here, you can go ahead and insult me, go go go, let the pack unleash its fury, please be clever, be funny, be brilliant, love each other posts, have fun !
And don’t disappoint me

If you feel that all answers you've got here are insulting you need to readjust a bit.

 

[Ruediger]

Hey guys, it would be so nice that you stop telling me I was wrong enjoying this Marantz CR610 during 10 years and that I’m wrong being disappointed by Wiim Amp.

You are not wrong if you enjoy your music.

Do what works for you.

 

[antcollinet]

ridiculous, it’s unpleasant, and it’s disrespectful.

Letting people know about the limitations of their (and humanities’) auditory systems, compared to the capability of audio gear - when they are previously unaware, is none of those things. Quite the opposite: It would be disrespectful IMO to leave people in ignorance of what science says about our hearing.

It is a large part of what this site is for.

None of us have hearing with infinite sensitivity - nor with infinite bandwidth. There are limits below which no human can hear changes in the audio signal.

Those limits are met by the large majority of modern audio electronics.

Then we (humanity - all of us) have perceptive biases which can easily cause the perceptions you are describing. So sighted listening which is subject to those biases - really has no value here. It is possible you are hearing something real - it might be from some un-reset EQ in Wii for example, or some tone controls somewhere. But from what you've said, these are unlikely..... Or from lack of accurate level matching.

But without *first* a controlled blind test, we can't know.

EDIT - but no-one is saying you *have* to do a blind test. Personally I've only ever participated in online blind tests: I've never set one up on my own gear. I just accept that when I hear something I don't like - the best solution is simply adjust to taste with EQ or tone controls. Which works whether or not what I think I am hearing is real. (as often as not I adjust back again when the plasticity of my hearing heads back towards neutral).

 

[AgarWave]

That's an interesting observation. Since the Ultra measures very well on paper, I wonder if the speaker load could be playing a role here. Has anyone compared the Amp Ultra with another amplifier on the same Tannoy speakers under level-matched conditions? It would be interesting to know whether this is really related to the amplifier's output stage or simply system matching.

 

[john61ct]

It would be interesting to know whether this is really related to the amplifier's output stage or simply system matching.

Those are not the only possibilities, especially after everyone so painstakingly laying out the much more likely cause

 

[Chrispy]

Thank you all for your answers.

The main lack is about dynamics, which has nothing to do with the frequency response (EQ).

I know my songs, I know my Tannoy for 25 years, I’ve had the CR610 for 10 years, and well… When a perfectly-known big impact or orchestral fortissimmo is expected but just « pschitt », it is what it is.

I noticed this immediately (first minutes of listening, even though I was amazed by the nice and very welcome treble space, and the great Wiim application).

The day after I used Roomfit for the first time. Roomfit corrections are useful, and indeed lowered the bass response - for a flatter, more homogeneous response, which is good and I fully agree with.

After this, the dynamics is still poor and, yes, my loudspeakers do sound depressed. That’s it.

The bass response is strange, sometimes completely ok, some other times completely lacking.
I don’t know why.
All I know as an engineer is that a loudspeaker is not only a R load but also a LC load, with L and C varying with frequency. Power output at 8 or 4 ohms is the ‘R’ part and I trust every measurement. My Tannoy dip at 3 ohms, and I’m convinced it’s not an issue at all. But the L and C part might be very challenging for amplifiers and I think that’s where the Wiim falls short.

Thank you @Marc v E, I’m going to check this amplifier.

Dynamics defined and measured how?

 

[DVinylfan]

Well, I got your theory, thank you. My amp is perfect, my sensitive brain is imperfect and my cognitive brain is dying. Ok. Fine.

I asked 3 questions and after 21 posts, only two posts brought something positive to the table, both from @Marc v E. I thank you again for this Mark, I appreciate.

Now, let's forget figures please. And let's go back to my initial post. Copy/paste :

Q1 : Has anyone faced such issue with Wiim TPA3255 PFFB output stage, and what solution did you find in a similar budget ?

Q2 : Would the Wiim Amp (non pro) sound better ? (please don't compare watts, I barely listen loud, and it's probably all about impedance and reactive/capacitive response here)

Q3 : Do you confirm Hypex nCore would bring my Tannoy 636 SE back to life ?

Thank you !

Me and Emilio(75)

 

[antcollinet]

That's an interesting observation. Since the Ultra measures very well on paper, I wonder if the speaker load could be playing a role here. Has anyone compared the Amp Ultra with another amplifier on the same Tannoy speakers under level-matched conditions? It would be interesting to know whether this is really related to the amplifier's output stage or simply system matching.

It would be useful at this point in the conversation to quote the person you are replying to - otherwise we have no idea what you are referring to as an "interesting observation"