Outlaw Model 5000 Multichannel Amplifier Review

[theking_z]

Hi all,
Just wanted to pop in this thread as a new owner of a 5000x, not exactly the same amp but incredibly similar.

I poked around a little inside, and I don't think this is a straight class-AB design as stated here. It has dual voltage rails so is more likely a class-G circuit, which isn't a bad thing as it stays barely above room temperature under normal TV volumes.

Looking at the power supply board, there are 2 rectifiers and 4 caps per channel, 1 rectifier and 2 caps for the low voltage supply, and 1 rectifier and 2 caps for the high voltage supply. All good so far...The flag I would raise is that all 4 caps are 6800uF rated at 50V. Low voltage taps on the transformer is 21.5VAC, should be okay, but the high voltage taps are 43V which will rectify to a little over 60VDC, a bit higher than what the caps are rated for so short life span may be of some concern with this amp.

On the plus side from my own observations. Noise floor is near silent with my speakers (audible only with my ear next to them), I've no 60Hz hum issues that are shown in the testing here (I used balanced input) and there's nothing bad I can say about the sound either. The chassis and the amp in general is also very well constructed of heavy gauge steel with pem-nut inserts for all the screws and a quality powder coat.

Thanks for the review. I have had my 5000X for about 4 months now. I initially had a loud buzz on my speaker tweeters but was able to get rid of them by using the ground nut connecting wires with my receiver.

The question I have is about the standby power consumption of this amp. I used a kill-a-watt meter and measured it draws 23 watts of power all the time when in standby mode (LED ring dim). It draws about 30 watts when turned on but no load applied. Isn't that standby power consumption rather high in todays' standard? My amp never goes to hot when running full volume (barely warm) but also at the same time never goes to room temperature when on standby mode. It is slightly warm to touch. In contrast, my Emotive XPA-5 draws less than a watt at standby and stays dead cold.

 

[dcibel]

One thing that is different between this amp from many consumer electronics is the the chassis actually is connected to ground. Internally, the ground lug on the chassis is simply wired directly to the ground pin on the AC cord. They key here is that any class 2 electronics that is double insulated without ground connection should be connected to the same outlet, power bar, etc. to avoid ground loop issues from the neutral connection to the ground connection on the amp. Issues here are common when cable and TV connections are made which are grounded elsewhere in the home. I suspect the ground lug is provided for cases where you have equipment on separate circuits (for example you've run a dedicated circuit just for the amp), you can then provide a short path between the grounds locally at the amp.

There appears to be a bit of power use when in standby, still a hint of warmth on top, I suspect that standby is just disconnecting the speakers from the amp so it appears off and speakers can be rewired without worry.

 

[Vasr]

One thing that is different between this amp from many consumer electronics is the the chassis actually is connected to ground.

This is true of ANY amp or electronics that has a ground pin for mains. That is the whole point of providing the ground pin for mains. The electronics itself doesn't need it to function. You just need a path to ground of the electrical network if there is a short within the system to its internal ground that is also typically connected to the chassis due to malfunction so that the home fuse can blow and there is no risk of electrocution if someone were to touch the chassis in such a condition.

Some amps (more common in older models) provide a switch to "lift the ground" so that the electronics ground is not connected to the mains ground. This is to prevent ground loops with multiple ground connections for the signal, in particular to remove the shield of the various metallic connectors (RCA plugs, e.g.,) to be connected to the amp's mains ground. The chassis is still connected to mains ground to prevent electrocution. But the amps, in this case, will have internal fuses if there is a short between mains and the electronics ground.

Internally, the ground lug on the chassis is simply wired directly to the ground pin on the AC cord. ...

I suspect the ground lug is provided for cases where you have equipment on separate circuits (for example you've run a dedicated circuit just for the amp), you can then provide a short path between the grounds locally at the amp.

Correct. I wish more amps did this. But it is needed even when the other equipment is connected to the same circuit but by two different paths. Anyone connecting PCs to audio devices without electrical isolators but plugged into the same power strip as the amp have frequently found this to be a problem. In such cases, ideally you would disconnect the electronics ground of the other device from it being connected to its mains ground if possible and connect it to the amp's ground lug. If not possible to disconnect the electronics ground from mains ground, then you would have to disconnect the mains ground pin for that device and connect the chassis/ground of that device to the grounds lug of the amp or ensure that the path via the lug poses much less resistance than its own ground connection . It is still safe since all equipment chassis will still be grounded for the short protection.

That is what the ground lug is there for. But this seems to be going out of fashion these days. Better to have the single mains ground connection (if needed to prevent ground loops) in the amp than in an upstream device.

 

[dcibel]

There's plenty of equipment, the Emotiva XPA-5 mentioned above for example that although the power plug looks like standard IEC it does not include a ground connection. Anyway, maybe it would have been better to provide a ground lift switch rather than a ground lug, not an issue either way in my home.

Back to the capacitors used. I thought I'd also mention that although half of the caps appear undersized 50V rated, they are 105 deg C rated as well, odd that Outlaw would skimp on voltage rating but go for high temp rating even though the caps are well out of the way of the heat generating devices. Debating whether I should splurge on a bunch of replacement caps of higher voltage rating, I don't see any reports of these amps giving up the ghost.

 

[Vasr]

There's plenty of equipment, the Emotiva XPA-5 mentioned above for example that although the power plug looks like standard IEC it does not include a ground connection.

Most amps don't provide a ground lug on their chassis so that is not a surprise. I was correcting your statement that Outlaw uniquely connects the chassis to the mains ground. All amps including Emotiva that have a third ground pin do this.

 

[dcibel]

I did not mean to imply that it was something unique. Just a note of "what's in there on this one" in case there was any question of this amp being out of the ordinary, it is not.

 

[peng]

Can someone kindly tell me how Amir does his "simulated speaker load test"? Or @amirm would, hopefully, if he happens to see my question.

Thank you very much.

 

[escott82]

Anybody test the 5000x model? Isn’t it class H just like the osd 5180 Nero?

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Anybody test the 5000x model? Isn’t it class H just like the osd 5180 Nero?

I have one sent for review. I will post over on Audioholics eventually. It is a standard Class AB as far as I know. It’s the 7000x minus two channels. I believe the 5180 is what the older 5000 was based on. I could be wrong. It is a common manufacturer.

I was told the parts are not the same however. That the Outlaw team has upgraded the 5000x amplifier components to improve performance.

here is a preview if you like:

I can’t find the 5 watt FFT on my phone. Compared to the older 5000 this amp has less power supply noise and a lower overall noise floor. Distortion was still at .01% at 147 watts into 8 ohms. THD and THD+N are about the same at all power levels since distortion is what actually dominates.

That mounding around the fundamental is power supply related. It could be fixed with more local coupling capacitance or a different design approach. However it’s also -105dB or better at 1 watts. I think even at maximum output it’s still -95dB. How can you really complain. It’s only so noticeable because of how low the noise floor is.

my full review will have more complete measurements and other comments.

 

[T_F]

Works outsanding for me and I wanted to share;

Speakers: Klipsch RP-280f, RP-450C
Receiver: Denon 3300x
Amplifier: Outlaw 5000x

To minimize the hum, I bought expensive shielded cables for the pre-out, and did not put them close to any other high-voltage/power cables. Everything is grounded.

Good:
* No hum
* Sound is slightly clearer than with Denon
* Much more accurate in low-end frequencies
* Much, much more powerful than the Denon
* The Outlaw 5000x runs cold (unlike the Denon which is cooking)
* Feels like the speakers are a little less harsh, but this may false

Bad:
* The Outlaw 5000x is super-heavy - afraid it will at one point break the TV stand
* Whished the Outlaw amplified the signal slightly more to compensate for the drawbacks of the Denon. The Denon receiver is unfortunately garbage in my opinion since it cannot turn off it's own amp despite only running on pre-outs, and manages to overheat itself several times (even shutting down) while the Outlaw is still cold.

Overall:
The sound effects are improved (more accurate, detailed and clean) with the Outlaw 5000x compared to the Denon, and some sound effects are significantly improved in my opinion e.g gun shots in movies feels much more real and powerful, almost like it actually happens in the room.
The Outlaw also doesn't lose the performance like the Denon when increasing the volume. My perception is that the Outlaw gives the same and accurate sound at low levels as in high, while the Denon you could hear it starts to become more inaccurate quickly with increased volume (bass more boomy, less detailed overall sound) until the Denon finally distorts. I haven't been able to reach distortion levels of the Outlaw and speakers since the Denon gives up way before.

I am very happy with the Outlaw 5000x.

 

[Doodski]

manages to overheat itself several times (even shutting down) while the Outlaw is still cold.

Peeps here with Denon receivers are laying fans on top of the receiver and have good success with the additional cooling this provides. Lay a fan or two flat right over the heatsink but on top of the top case cover. Pull air from the receiver.
Here's a 120mm 5 Volt fan.
You might need to make/buy a spacer to lift the fan a couple of millimeters so it can spin freely.
If you have a old cel tel power supply it will be able to power this fan. Otherwise there are also 12V fans too.

 

[JayGilb]

There's plenty of equipment, the Emotiva XPA-5 mentioned above for example that although the power plug looks like standard IEC it does not include a ground connection. Anyway, maybe it would have been better to provide a ground lift switch rather than a ground lug, not an issue either way in my home.

Back to the capacitors used. I thought I'd also mention that although half of the caps appear undersized 50V rated, they are 105 deg C rated as well, odd that Outlaw would skimp on voltage rating but go for high temp rating even though the caps are well out of the way of the heat generating devices. Debating whether I should splurge on a bunch of replacement caps of higher voltage rating, I don't see any reports of these amps giving up the ghost.

I'm guessing that not every part of the amp requires 50v caps and that is part of the reason you're getting a good watt/dollar value with this amp.

 

[peng]

I'm guessing that not every part of the amp requires 50v caps and that is part of the reason you're getting a good watt/dollar value with this amp.

There is no issue with the 50 V rating because they were wired in series/parallel so voltage will be doubled but the resultant capacitance would be halved of what the total that was indicated in the specs., and as Gene alluded to, that could be misleading..

 

[dcibel]

There is no issue with the 50 V rating because they were wired in series/parallel so voltage will be doubled but the resultant capacitance would be halved of what the total that was indicated in the specs., and as Gene alluded to, that could be misleading..

What gives you that impression? From my inspection (visual and multimeter) it appeared similar to what I see for most class-G/H amplifiers, where 2 voltage rails have individual capacitors, all referenced to common point. Here's an example schematic from quick internet search for class-G topology.

For this amp you have a bank of 4 caps for each amp module, 2 caps for the low voltage rail (C5/C6 in the example above), 2 for the high voltage rail (C1,C2 in the example above). The 2 high voltage rail capacitors will see ~60VDC.

Do you really need me to open it up again and trace the circuit?

 

[peng]

What gives you that impression? From my inspection (visual and multimeter) it appeared similar to what I see for most class-G/H amplifiers, where 2 voltage rails have individual capacitors, all referenced to common point. Here's an example schematic from quick internet search for class-G topology.

For this amp you have a bank of 4 caps for each amp module, 2 caps for the low voltage rail (C5/C6 in the example above), 2 for the high voltage rail (C1,C2 in the example above). The 2 high voltage rail capacitors will see ~60VDC.

Do you really need me to open it up again and trace the circuit?
View attachment 169090

Sorry I didn't respond to your post but to JayGilb's, and I thought he was talking about the power supply storage caps. If he, and you were talking about other caps, then forget what I said. If yes, then you would have to ask Gene because I have not seen the schematics, and in any case, it won't fair to you to ask you open up your amp to trace the circuit just to satisfy my curiosity so I would just take your word for it.

Outlaw Model 5000 Five Channel Amplifier Review

The Outlaw Model 5000 is a 5 channel 120 watt amplifier that over-delivers in power & performance. Great sound on the cheap without peer at $599. Best amp deal of the year? Watch our YouTube review.

www.audioholics.com

He said in the overview:

The Model 5000 is a traditional Class AB amplifier design with four output devices per channel in a mono-block configuration fed from a large centralized toroidal power supply that appears to be at least 1kVA rated. Each channel also has its own power supply capacitor bank made up of four loosely spaced 6,800uF capacitors. The user manual for the Model 5000 claims a total of 27,200uF of power supply capacitance per channel but it’s a bit misleading since upon closer inspection I found the capacitors were only 50V rated which means they had to be wired in series-parallel to handle the voltage necessary to deliver the rated 120 watts/channel.

Again, may be we are talking about different things.

 

[dcibel]

I would infer that the information in the overview that you quote is making incorrect assumptions about the power supply arrangement based on incorrect information of a simple Class A/B design. Don't believe everything you read on the internet . I wouldn't suspect a complete redesign for the 5000x from the older 5000 model, but rather minor update to include balanced input. Addiotionally, the interior photo in the Audioholic review shows 5 wires from the transformer to power supply board (2 blue, 2 red, 1 yellow), and 5 wires from power supply board to each amp module (hard to see but it is red, yellow, brown, black red), so I would assume an idential class H/G arrangement. 5 wires = +HV, +LV, GND, -LV, -HV.

In any case, I still have concern about the 50V rating of half of the power supply capacitors. On the other hand, I haven't seen any reports of a failed Outlaw amp so only time will tell how long of a life these ChengX caps will live

 

[Shazb0t]

I just picked up a local Outlaw Audio 5000X and wanted to make sure I'm looking at the correct interconnects to use for this setup. Since the new 5000X version accepts XLR in addition to RCA and my Yamaha AVR preouts are single ended RCA only, I think the cleanest look will be to go with RCA to XLR interconnect cables. Has anyone used these Monoprice RCA to XLR interconnects with Outlaw amps?

Monoprice 3ft Premier Series XLR Male to RCA Male Cable, 16AWG (Gold Plated) - Monoprice.com

An XLR to RCA cable converts a balanced audio signal into an unbalanced signal. This is good for sending audio signals from an XLR source to an RCA input, or vice versa. Regardless of direction, the r

www.monoprice.com

Another item that I'm interested in picking up for this setup is a power strip surge protector. Since I'm already likely ordering the interconnect cables from Monoprice, are there any recommended go to power strip surge protector options from Monoprice for use with a power amplifier like the Outlaw 5000X and modern reciever?

POWER STRIP SURGE PROTECTORS - HDMI Cable, Home Theater Accessories, HDMI Products, Cables, Adapters, Video/Audio Switch, Networking, USB, Firewire, Printer Toner, and more!

Monoprice, Inc. (DBA. MonoPrice.com) specializes in the wholesale distribution of world class cable assemblies for home theater, PC, and high technology industries. MonoPrice.com offers a wide range of products from standard PC products, network cables, and HDMI cables to custom cable assemblies...

www.monoprice.com

Looking at this one based on the sale price and power ratings:

Monoprice 12 Outlet Slim Surge Protector 10ft Cord, 4230 Joules, Clamping Voltage 330V - Monoprice.com

Obsidian™ Series Surge Protectors safeguard your electronic devices from power surges and spikes. This 4230 Joule surge protector features 12 surge protected outlets with sliding safety covers t

www.monoprice.com

Any help or recommendations would be appreciated, thanks!

 

[dcibel]

RCA to XLR is a great way to go, you get the noise reduction benefit of XLR with the unbalanced signal and extra conductor. The monoprice product is probably just fine for the task, and very affordable.

A power strip is a power strip, not much to talk about there just get one that fits your needs.

 

[iLoveCats]

I put a whole house surge protector in my breaker panel. I've bought a lot of conditioners and surge protectors over the years and I'm just done with it. Everything is protected now.

 

[Shazb0t]

Okay, so I got the 5000X all hooked up in my system. Everything works and sounds good for the most part.

The only issue I have is that if I put my ear to the RAAL 70-20xram ribbon tweeters in any of my speakers, they are making a low level buzz that isn't present when switching back to using just the Yamaha TSR-7810 internal amplifier.

I have ruled out any sort of grounding issue as the light buzz is present in all speakers even without any other connections made to the amplifier, aside from the required power and wiring out to the speakers. It is present in all 5 channels. The buzz does not increase or decrease in volume when the other pre-outs & ground connections are made. But as I said, the buzz is audible without any source connections to the amplifier. Is this normal behavior for this amplifier with its 29x gain connected to the ribbon tweeters in my Ascend speakers? The speakers have ~89.5dB sensitivity per the ASR Horizon review. the buzz is only audible with my ear right up against the tweeters. Any help would be appreciated.

*Edit*
I hooked up an Elac UB5 bookshelf speaker in place of one of the towers and I can hear the buzz it it's tweeter as well. In both speakers my ear has to be nearly touching the tweeter to hear the buzzing, but it doesn't appear to be specific to the Ascend tweeters. Now I'm wondering if there is something up with my apartment power outlet that is showing with the 3 prong power cord Outlaw amp vs the floating ground 2 prong of the reciever. Is that something that could be having an affect? Should I test with some kind of power conditioner?

*Edit 2*
Okay, so I tested with a cheater plug in the wall socket with only the Outlaw amp and speaker connections and it didn't make a difference. The low level noise/buzz was still present at the same level.

I then ditched the cheater plug and normally hooked up my speakers to the AVR outputs while only leaving the grounding wire connection between it and the Outlaw intact. With the AVR powered on I actually can hear a low level noise coming through the speakers and it was music! It was too faint for me to make out with my ear up to the tweeters, but it definitely had a musical beat accompanied by vocals. It subsided after a few minutes into just low level noise. This "music" and noise were both lower in volume than the noise I hear through the Outlaw, but both require a close ear to the tweeter for audibility. What the hell was that about?? At least the low level noise issue doesn't seem to ONLY affect the Outlaw amplifier as I initially thought. It is just slightly louder in the Outlaw vs the Yahama AVR. I have yet to hear any "music" through the Outlaw as the amplifier, only low level noise.

I also connected everything back up as normal with the AVR as the pre into the Outlaw amplifier and experimented with the AVR volume to see if the noise changed in level from muted to max volume. It does not, it is present as a static volume if that points to anything.

The more I look into this issue the deeper the rabbit hole seems to go. I'm not convinced it's a problem with my Outlaw amplifier, but I'm perplexed that there is some sort of noise/music signal in my apartment power lines or being picked up and amplified by my equipment. Be it the Yamaha AVR or Outlaw amplifier. This noise is so low in level it does not affect my experience with the speakers, it's definitely a curiosity though. And I'm still slightly concerned if there is any danger to the tweeters because of it, though I'm personally thinking the answer is no.