Outlaw 2200 M-Block Amplifier Review

[thepiecesfit]

I’ve been using these for a while. I picked up a pair used and bought a third one for my LCR. My speakers are power hungry Polk 705/706c. How would you guys rate the pre outs of the Denon X4400H with these amps? Can’t complain with the performance but when I try -5 below reference volume things start to sound bad. MLP is about 12 feet.

 

[bigbag34]

I’ve been using these for a while. I picked up a pair used and bought a third one for my LCR. My speakers are power hungry Polk 705/706c. How would you guys rate the pre outs of the Denon X4400H with these amps? Can’t complain with the performance but when I try -5 below reference volume things start to sound bad. MLP is about 12 feet.

My guess would be the preamp section of the Denon is being driven to clipping. The 2200's only require 850mV input via the RCA's, but the input impedance on the RCA's is 16K ohms which is fairly low which makes it harder on the preamp section.

 

[thepiecesfit]

My guess would be the preamp section of the Denon is being driven to clipping. The 2200's only require 850mV input via the RCA's, but the input impedance on the RCA's is 16K ohms which is fairly low which makes it harder on the preamp section.

Audioholics seems to have measured the X3600H pre out clipping voltage at 4.25v I cant imagine the X4400H is too far off?

 

[bigbag34]

I think your power hungry speakers combined with the 2200's low input impedance and the 2200's are asking the Denon to drive more current than it's capable of and hence you're getting clipping.

 

[thepiecesfit]

I think your power hungry speakers combined with the 2200's low input impedance and the 2200's are asking the Denon to drive more current than it's capable of and hence you're getting clipping.

Not to derail this thread. But how would one calculate this? I know the logic behind the 1 watt/1 meter principle, +3dB requiring doubling of power and the average 4dB loss for each meter of distance towards the main listening position. The speakers are 88dB at 8ohms. I could not find anything meaningful in terms of how much load does a subwoofer take off the speakers when crossed over at 100hz for example. Do you have any more insight?

 

[DonH56]

IME/IMO 16 k-ohms is not all that low for input impedance; hard to believe the Denon can't drive that. And 850 mV input sensitivity is fairly low these days so even less reason to think the Denon is audibly clipping. Have not measured it, of course. I would suspect the amp and/or speakers themselves are clipping. Of course something could just be bad (broken) in the signal chain...

Guesstimator for in-room power requirements: Peak SPL Calculator
Equal-loudness curves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

The latter demonstrates that, to hear a 100 Hz tone and have it sound as loud as a 1 kHz tone at 80 dB, you need the 100 Hz tone to be about 10 dB louder (10x the power). And over 20 dB louder (100x the power) at 50 Hz. So a subwoofer may take off quite a load, but of course it depends upon what you are listening to and how loudly, so there is no simple answer.

HTH - Don

 

[thepiecesfit]

IME/IMO 16 k-ohms is not all that low for input impedance; hard to believe the Denon can't drive that. And 850 mV input sensitivity is fairly low these days so even less reason to think the Denon is audibly clipping. Have not measured it, of course. I would suspect the amp and/or speakers themselves are clipping. Of course something could just be bad (broken) in the signal chain...

Guesstimator for in-room power requirements: Peak SPL Calculator
Equal-loudness curves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

The latter demonstrates that, to hear a 100 Hz tone and have it sound as loud as a 1 kHz tone at 80 dB, you need the 100 Hz tone to be about 10 dB louder (10x the power). And over 20 dB louder (100x the power) at 50 Hz. So a subwoofer may take off quite a load, but of course it depends upon what you are listening to and how loudly, so there is no simple answer.

HTH - Don

According to the SPL caculator should be able to hit reference volume no problem. Then again my room is not really treated and I can't say the source recording is always perfect. But it just ends up sounding very harsh, noisy and shrill. Looks like I have some more reading to do thanks for the information.

 

[KEW]

According to the SPL caculator should be able to hit reference volume no problem. Then again my room is not really treated and I can't say the source recording is always perfect. But it just ends up sounding very harsh, noisy and shrill. Looks like I have some more reading to do thanks for the information.

Take this with a grain of salt, as it is purely subjective.
However, my current conceptual model is that if your room is overly live, things sound pretty good at normal volumes, but after cranking, the sound gets abusive because the mids and highs are reflected so effectively.

 

[DonH56]

According to the SPL caculator should be able to hit reference volume no problem. Then again my room is not really treated and I can't say the source recording is always perfect. But it just ends up sounding very harsh, noisy and shrill. Looks like I have some more reading to do thanks for the information.

Then chances are the speakers themselves are distorting, or as @KEW said it is simply too loud for you and your room and that volume.

 

[bigbag34]

I’ve had two m2200 for a couple weeks and I’ve tortured them. I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s and while I grew up listening to Pink Floyd, The Who, Moody Blues, Yes, Rush etc. since that is what my parents listened to and I still love all those bands, I grew up listening to a lot of rap with my friends. Rap is taxing to speakers and amps. In my set up the outlaw monoblocks stay very cool and seem very stable. The two m2200’s im running were still very cool after 2 hours straight of rap at nearly 80db average.

 

[Sal1950]

Rap is taxing to speakers and amps. In my set up the outlaw monoblocks stay very cool and seem very stable. The two m2200’s im running were still very cool after 2 hours straight of rap at nearly 80db average.

Rap is also taxing to the ears and brain, there should be warning labels on the music just like cigarettes.
"Warning, This Noise can cause cancer and other fatal health issues, Listen at your own risk."

 

[bigbag34]

Rap is also taxing to the ears and brain, there should be warning labels on the music just like cigarettes.
"Warning, This Noise can cause cancer and other fatal health issues, Listen at your own risk."

LOL I don’t disagree but I still like it

 

[thepiecesfit]

How are the measurments from the unbalanced inputs? Many of us don't have AVR's with XLR connections. Are they similar enough that the differences are negligable?

 

[John Galt]

How are the measurments from the unbalanced inputs? Many of us don't have AVR's with XLR connections. Are they similar enough that the differences are negligable?

Exact same question that I asked earlier in the thread. Still curious to know, even though I am past the return window on my 3 pack of 2200s, and really like them. Maybe ignorance is bliss.

 

[bogart]

It is definitely bliss, @John Galt - in my case, I am taking everything we know about the M2200 and applying it to my M200's, and penalizing the SINAD by 3dB in my mind. From what I have read the topology of the amp is the same, but they revised it to add balanced inputs when they released a pre that provided balanced outs.

 

[peng]

It is definitely bliss, @John Galt - in my case, I am taking everything we know about the M2200 and applying it to my M200's, and penalizing the SINAD by 3dB in my mind. From what I have read the topology of the amp is the same, but they revised it to add balanced inputs when they released a pre that provided balanced outs.

Imo it is a safe bet that the results would have been very similar if unbalanced inputs were used. If you look at past S&V and some AH bench test results, XLR did not always yield better results. Typically it had been a case of +/-, sometimes better, sometime worse, usually only negligible amount either way. The M2200 does look like a M200 + XLR connections, though it is quite possible that there might have been some minor difference/or tweaking in the details; and that might have resulted in slightly better THD+N (measured, specs are exactly the same).

 

[dwkdnvr]

no experience with the seller, but I've followed their site for a while and they certainly seem legit.

https://tmraudio.com/components/pow...audio-model-2200-mono-power-amplifier-pair-1/

 

[John Galt]

Looks like Outlaw just updated the front panel of the 2200. I’d love to buy the new front panel if they make it available separately and it’s plug and play.

(Update: @KEW noticed that it’s a whole new model number 2220 instead of 2200)

 

[KEW]

Looks like Outlaw just updated the front panel of the 2200. I’d love to buy the new front panel if they make it available separately and it’s plug and play. View attachment 63897

Also gave it a new model number! It is now the 2220! Wonder if they changed anything significant!
I am glad to see they replaced the green print with white! This is much cleaner and more professional that the mint green color they used in the past!

 

[thepiecesfit]

Looks like Outlaw just updated the front panel of the 2200. I’d love to buy the new front panel if they make it available separately and it’s plug and play. View attachment 63897

Where is that picture from? It doesn’t seem to be on their website.