OTC Hearing Aids - Apple EarPod Pro2 vs. Philips 9050

[pkeosila]

42 yo here and was diagnosed with mild to moderate hearing loss (L39/R35 dBHL) this past year. I’ve known I’ve had hearing loss a majority of my life and the diagnosis was genetic hearing loss. Only reason I ended up getting hearing aids was my son was born with the same genetic hearing loss but only in his left ear and thought I would be a good role model for him if he saw me wearing them as he grows up.

I’ve gotten so used to my hearing loss that I never knew how much of the higher register I was missing when listening to music or audio from television and movies. Funnily enough I still prefer a warmer or dark sound signature mostly because I’m so used to hearing music that way my whole life. I always knew I had trouble with female voices or people who had higher voices but I was able to get by my whole life with a lot of “huhs, and can you repeat that?” All my family and friends would make comments about how I needed some help with my hearing. Fast forward to after my son being born I got setup with some oticons reals after seeing the audiologist.

Like others have pointed out hearing aids are mostly to improve conversation and listening to your environment. My oticons like most modern hearing aids have blue tooth and can stream but they absolutely suck for that purpose. Not only does the bluetooth have a lot of issue staying connected they sound thin and lack any musicality because they are still acting like hearing aids while playing back your media akin to how air pods work in transparency mode but with much worse audio quality. I will use them sometime to playback podcasts but that’s it. For music like you discovered AirPod Pro 2 are awesome for music because you can input your audiogram and it will do some eq under the hood to boost the regions you have trouble hearing. I have messed around with the APP2 as hearing devices but they don’t work anywhere near as well as my way too expensive hearing aids. We will see how the future updates that turn them into otc hearing aids, but for now hearing aids for strictly hearing and APP2 or using eq apps/qudelix for iems and headphones for music.

 

[TheWalkman]

Were you able to see the actual audiogram? I couldn’t find a way to see it, I could just see the synthetic report

Vertumno,

Indeed. See attached.

I can’t remember if this was presented in Mimi Hearing or Apple Health, but the audiogram is clearly accessible.

 

[TunaBug]

Kemmler,

I own half a dozen IEMs and appreciate what a solid seal means to bass response. The Phillips domes on my 9050s are designed specifically not to seal my ear canals. The technician told me that with no low frequency loss, they want to, “preserve my existing hearing.”

As others have also alluded to, it seems that traditional hearing aids are designed for voice clarity, not music sound quality.

The EarPods do seal well and result in great music sound.

Yeah, my hearing aids (from Costco) came with domes but I spent an extra $150 (a steal, really) to get custom ear molds. For me it's about a better fit. And as bad as my hearing is, there is a large channel from outside to inside to help pass low frequency.

 

[ripvw]

Thanks for the heads-up on the Mimi app - I will try it out. As far as critical music listening goes, my standard for portable music is my Apple iPhone 16 Pro running Apple Music in 192kHz lossless with an Hidizs S8 DAC driving Etymotic ER4SR IEM's. The Apple Air Pods Pro 2 are totally outclassed by this combination - no contest...

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Thanks for the heads-up on the Mimi app - I will try it out. As far as critical music listening goes, my standard for portable music is my Apple iPhone 16 Pro running Apple Music in 192kHz lossless with an Hidizs S8 DAC driving Etymotic ER4SR IEM's. The Apple Air Pods Pro 2 are totally outclassed by this combination - no contest...

The ER4SR have a substantially leaner sound than the AirPods Pro 2. It's understandable that you find this more revealing, but others might describe the sound as thin and may argue that it's the Etymotics that are outclassed.

 

[nathan]

And of course the point of this thread is that the AirPods Pro (first and second gen) can take an audiogram and adjust their output to offset some of the impact of hearing loss, which the etymotic cannot. (Note that this is not simply EQ, but also signal processing in terms of dynamic range, because an audiogram is not just a reverse "EQ" setting, but has to do with hearing "thresholds" not simply traditional linear attenuation.)

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

I've been wearing prescription hearing aids for over 10 years. My hearing loss is pretty dramatic above 2K. One thing I learned early is that hearing aids don't reproduce frequencies above 8K very well. They're similar to the old school paging mics people use for amplified harmonica. Because of the boost over 2K that I get, I get a dramatic improvement in music. I realize the limits, but I'm willing to get everything but the top octave or so. I hear a lot of overtones I was unable to hear for years. Bowed instrument attacks are very different as are snare drums and cymbals. The thing I wasn't expecting is that bass is improved quite a bit by the higher frequencies I missed in the attack. I still need closed captions for a lot of British TV, especially for regional accents.

 

[pkeosila]

alternative

I still need closed captions for a lot of British TV, especially for regional accents.

So funny because I’ve always told my wife I have no idea what British people on shows and movies are saying but it was most likely because of my hearing loss. I can understand accents a little bit better now when wearing my hearing aids

 

[TheWalkman]

So funny because I’ve always told my wife I have no idea what British people on shows and movies are saying but it was most likely because of my hearing loss. I can understand accents a little bit better now when wearing my hearing aids

I’ve always really appreciated thick accents and over the past few years, I found myself really struggling to understand when listening to foreign news interviews. At first I thought I was losing my mind but my speech therapy friend clued me in that this is a classic sign of high frequency hearing loss. Bingo.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I’ve always really appreciated thick accents and over the past few years, I found myself really struggling to understand when listening to foreign news interviews. At first I thought I was losing my mind but my speech therapy friend clued me in that this is a classic sign of high frequency hearing loss. Bingo.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Revel speakers solved voice intelligibility issues. Waiting for reviews after update. Need for calls and voices for my job. We'll see

 

[ripvw]

So I downloaded the Mimi software, ran the hearing test and loaded the results into my Health app and then proceeded to allow the Accessibility app to modify the response of my Apple EarPod Pro 2 headphones. OMG the difference is staggering! I highly recommend that anyone with these headphones follow the same steps that others have outlined for me. It is a completely different listening experience and after comparing my ER4S reference to the modified EarPods I can see why some would prefer the Apple headphones. If Apple's upcoming software further improves the sound then the remaining issues I have with these headphones is the relatively short battery life (no Star Trek marathons) and the fact that I haven't figured out a way to use the modified EarPods with my Apple TV 4K. Yet...

 

[HomoSapiensWannaBe]

I had my 3rd adjustment at Costco for the Philips 9050. (Please see my earlier post in this thread for background info.)

Now, feedback control is canceled for all four listening programs. The L/R balance is now 5db in favor of the right ear. My excellent Costco fitter reset the EQ curves to be almost as boosted as the beginning of our 1st session. Those initial curves were too hot, so we had toned them down a few db, but they are now brighter than after the 2nd session, especially for the right ear.

The Music/HiFi program (#3) doesn't have any compression and uses omnidirectional mics with the least processing. The Speech in Noise program (#2) has unidirectional mics, compression, high frequency boosting and frequency shift/compression (but only for my far worse right ear.) The Movie/Theater program (#4) is like the Music/HiFi program, but using unidirectional mics to help with dialogue.

I assume, but haven't confirmed, that the General program (#1), which is the default when the hearing aids are taken out of the charging case, is the only one with the "AI" features detecting head movement and ambient noise to set various parameters.

I am happy with these hearing aids now!

I remain very interested in the upcoming Apple Hearing Health suite in combination with the Airpods Pro 2. My fitter wasn't aware of all the new features coming for that, even though he personally uses the Airpods Pro 2 (with Mimi EQ). So, I sent him the Apple link.

Has anyone here been using the Airpods Pro 2 at loud concerts in noise cancellation mode to reduce volume, but using "transparency" passthrough for full bandwidth sound, including Mimi or other personal EQ adjustments? I'm excited at this possibility since I don't usually like the EQ at concerts, and volume levels are often absurd even for acoustic music. I wonder if the Airpods Pro 2 have sufficient dynamic range to avoid distortion and non-linear compression at concert levels of 105db or more?

As you all know, normal earplugs literally suck for music and conversation. Also, they cause occlusion. My old custom-molded Etymotic Research earplugs, with 15 or 25db attenuator diaphragms are better than plain earplugs, but they still don't have full-range sound, especially with my high frequency hearing loss.

Anyway, it seems good times are here for better hearing health, and the devices and software will only get better in the near future given the huge global market. If they are smart, Google and Samsung, among many others, should be busy with their own solutions.

Cheers!

 

[vertumno]

Vertumno,

Indeed. See attached.

I can’t remember if this was presented in Mimi Hearing or Apple Health, but the audiogram is clearly accessible.


View attachment 396044

Thanks! I found them in Apple Health

 

[nathan]

I had my 3rd adjustment at Costco for the Philips 9050. (Please see my earlier post in this thread for background info.)

Now, feedback control is canceled for all four listening programs. The L/R balance is now 5db in favor of the right ear. My excellent Costco fitter reset the EQ curves to be almost as boosted as the beginning of our 1st session. Those initial curves were too hot, so we had toned them down a few db, but they are now brighter than after the 2nd session, especially for the right ear.

The Music/HiFi program (#3) doesn't have any compression and uses omnidirectional mics with the least processing. The Speech in Noise program (#2) has unidirectional mics, compression, high frequency boosting and frequency shift/compression (but only for my far worse right ear.) The Movie/Theater program (#4) is like the Music/HiFi program, but using unidirectional mics to help with dialogue.

I assume, but haven't confirmed, that the General program (#1), which is the default when the hearing aids are taken out of the charging case, is the only one with the "AI" features detecting head movement and ambient noise to set various parameters.

I am happy with these hearing aids now!

I remain very interested in the upcoming Apple Hearing Health suite in combination with the Airpods Pro 2. My fitter wasn't aware of all the new features coming for that, even though he personally uses the Airpods Pro 2 (with Mimi EQ). So, I sent him the Apple link.

Has anyone here been using the Airpods Pro 2 at loud concerts in noise cancellation mode to reduce volume, but using "transparency" passthrough for full bandwidth sound, including Mimi or other personal EQ adjustments? I'm excited at this possibility since I don't usually like the EQ at concerts, and volume levels are often absurd even for acoustic music. I wonder if the Airpods Pro 2 have sufficient dynamic range to avoid distortion and non-linear compression at concert levels of 105db or more?

As you all know, normal earplugs literally suck for music and conversation. Also, they cause occlusion. My old custom-molded Etymotic Research earplugs, with 15 or 25db attenuator diaphragms are better than plain earplugs, but they still don't have full-range sound, especially with my high frequency hearing loss.

Anyway, it seems good times are here for better hearing health, and the devices and software will only get better in the near future given the huge global market. If they are smart, Google and Samsung, among many others, should be busy with their own solutions.

Cheers!

Wirecutter did a good measurements based overview of hearing protection devices.

The Best Earplugs for Concerts

Although custom earplugs are best for pro musicians and frequent concert-goers, we like the Loop Experience 2 earplugs for the occasional concert.

www.nytimes.com

I believe they included the AirPods Pro’s in their analysis but mostly in a separate article. The attenuation when in transparency mode was too modest to be safe at concert levels iirc.

Can the AirPods Pro Protect Your Hearing? We Put Them to the Test.

Can earbuds provide adequate hearing protection for loud concerts? We tested several popular earbuds, including the AirPods Pro, to find out.

www.nytimes.com

 

[HomoSapiensWannaBe]

Wirecutter did a good measurements based overview of hearing protection devices.

The Best Earplugs for Concerts

Although custom earplugs are best for pro musicians and frequent concert-goers, we like the Loop Experience 2 earplugs for the occasional concert.

www.nytimes.com

I believe they included the AirPods Pro’s in their analysis but mostly in a separate article. The attenuation when in transparency mode was too modest to be safe at concert levels iirc.

Can the AirPods Pro Protect Your Hearing? We Put Them to the Test.

Can earbuds provide adequate hearing protection for loud concerts? We tested several popular earbuds, including the AirPods Pro, to find out.

www.nytimes.com

 

[HomoSapiensWannaBe]

Thanks for sharing the articles!

I wonder if the tested -10db only transparency mode protection for the Airpods Pro 2 is a software limitation that will be improved with the upcoming Hearing Health suite? Theoretically, Apple should be able to have pass through sound with even more db reduction, and still apply the user's hearing loss EQ.

My problem with most loud concerts is usually excess bass and kick drum, which is the opposite of what I need to hear for my loss. With traditional earplugs, I feel this low frequency excess even when it is greatly reduced by plugs in my ear. Frustrating!

I recently had a pair of Loop Switch earplugs bought during the Prime summer sale. I couldn't tell any practical difference between the three different modes, but this could be due to my high frequency hearing loss. So, I returned them. Maybe the Loop deciated "Experience 2" concert plugs are better?

At the same time as the Loop Switch, I ordered and kept the <$10 "concert" plugs with diaphragms that came in a nice little stubby aluminum storage tube. Actually 2 pair were provided with slightly different tip fit. They don't attenuate a lot, but I perceived the sound has more high frequencies.

My 32-year-old custom-molded Etymotic research plugs with pop in -15 and -25db diaphragms are even better, but the molds have fallen apart, so I can't use them.

Last night I enjoyed the great "25 years of Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame" concert compilation on Prime. This is a fabulous concert with a variety of amazing performances and great sound. I used the Philips 9050 hearing aids in Music/HiFi mode (#3), and set the AV receiver to stereo using the mains with no eq and a nearfield subwoofer crossed over at 50hz.

Cheers!

 

[isostasy]

Thanks for sharing the articles!

I wonder if the tested -10db only transparency mode protection for the Airpods Pro 2 is a software limitation that will be improved with the upcoming Hearing Health suite? Theoretically, Apple should be able to have pass through sound with even more db reduction, and still apply the user's hearing loss EQ.

My problem with most loud concerts is usually excess bass and kick drum, which is the opposite of what I need to hear for my loss. With traditional earplugs, I feel this low frequency excess even when it is greatly reduced by plugs in my ear. Frustrating!

I recently had a pair of Loop Switch earplugs bought during the Prime summer sale. I couldn't tell any practical difference between the three different modes, but this could be due to my high frequency hearing loss. So, I returned them. Maybe the Loop deciated "Experience 2" concert plugs are better?

At the same time as the Loop Switch, I ordered and kept the <$10 "concert" plugs with diaphragms that came in a nice little stubby aluminum storage tube. Actually 2 pair were provided with slightly different tip fit. They don't attenuate a lot, but I perceived the sound has more high frequencies.

My 32-year-old custom-molded Etymotic research plugs with pop in -15 and -25db diaphragms are even better, but the molds have fallen apart, so I can't use them.

Last night I enjoyed the great "25 years of Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame" concert compilation on Prime. This is a fabulous concert with a variety of amazing performances and great sound. I used the Philips 9050 hearing aids in Music/HiFi mode (#3), and set the AV receiver to stereo using the mains with no eq and a nearfield subwoofer crossed over at 50hz.

Cheers!

Measurements of the Loop Switch: https://www.hearadvisor.com/earplugs/loop-switch

I wouldn't buy hearing protection without an accompanying NRR (USA) or EU equivalent etc. I use Sennheiser Soundprotex currently and they attenuate more evenly than my old Ety plugs which always sounded a bit muffled.

 

[nathan]

Thanks for posting that!

Looks like the Loop Switch has both good audio and, in a pinch, very good attenuation at a slight cost to good audio, all for under $60.

For more like $40, Eargasm High Fidelity is better when wanting the 16 rating, but doesn't offer options for less attenuation that some people might want. I'd probably get the Eargasm over the Loop. In most situations I'd want that much attenuation, and it has better fidelity (the best perhaps according to this testing) at that level of attenuation versus all the rest?

But then there's the Minuendo (not the adjustable version which has the option for extreme attenuation but at almost all levels has worse fidelity than their fixed attenuation amount model). That looks even better. Dang, I may get some of these! Of course it costs more, at $80, but dang that's a small price to pay if the measurements really pay off.

 

[vertumno]

Thanks for posting that!

Looks like the Loop Switch has both good audio and, in a pinch, very good attenuation at a slight cost to good audio, all for under $60.

For more like $40, Eargasm High Fidelity is better when wanting the 16 rating, but doesn't offer options for less attenuation that some people might want. I'd probably get the Eargasm over the Loop. In most situations I'd want that much attenuation, and it has better fidelity (the best perhaps according to this testing) at that level of attenuation versus all the rest?

But then there's the Minuendo (not the adjustable version which has the option for extreme attenuation but at almost all levels has worse fidelity than their fixed attenuation amount model). That looks even better. Dang, I may get some of these! Of course it costs more, at $80, but dang that's a small price to pay if the measurements really pay off.

By reading the measurements it’d seem that the loop switch lets too much of the high frequencies passing through, the most dangerous ones. I’d rather loose some clarity but be better protected