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Optimizing a Genelec / NAD / DIRAC / JTR Setup

danielmiessler

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Writing to celebrate a near-endgame setup (at least for me), and to ask for help with optimization.

Setup:
  • 3 x Genelec 8351B Left, Center, Right
  • 2 x Genelec W371A Lef and Right Woofer Towers
  • 2 x Genelec 7360A Left and Right Subs (10")
  • 1 x JTR RS1 Center Sub (18")
  • 2 x Genelec 8341A Surrounds
  • 2 x Genelec 8341A Rear Surrounds
  • NAD T778 Receiver with DIRAC
  • dCS Bartók Headphone DAC/AMP
  • Audeze LCD-4 Headphones
  • Roon Audio Management (sent to NAD Receiver and dCS Bartók)
  • DIRAC Optimized using the NAD receiver and mic
  • Sound diffusers by GIK Acoustics
  • Cables are nothing special. High-quality stuff from Monoprice or whatever
NOTE: This is not how it will end up looking: I still need to purchase my center console/table to put the receiver and Kaleidescape on, and more importantly, to hide the subs underneath. Plus, cable management everywhere.

The 8351B, the W371A, and the 7360A Subs on both the left and right, are all functioning as a single speaker because I'm sending the left and right signal to the Genelec subs, which then go out to the woofer stand and the 8351B on top.

I've optimized that setup (before DIRAC) using GLM, so those two pairs of three should be working somewhat well together, although I'm worried that the GLM configuration might have conflicted with the DIRAC measurement (if the Genelec triplets were behaving in a modified way due to GLM config).

All speakers, including the JTR sub in the middle, are being fed by the NAD receiver via the pre-outs.

Comments:
  • This setup has given me extraordinary joy. Like I've never enjoyed music so much in my life.
  • I have to say that the setup was just "good" or "great" before two things—the JTR sub, and NAD/DIRAC.
  • Before those two I was honestly wondering if the system was worth it, but because of this forum and the reading it inspired, I learned that THE ROOM IS AN INSTRUMENT, and realized the importance of GLM and DIRAC.
  • I also knew from lots of 2020 pandemic study that subwoofers change the entire equation, but the dual 10" subs in the pure Genelec setup were underwhelming. That was before the JTR RS1 and the NAD with DIRAC. I think this is because the subs are tuned down by GLM. That's what I read anyway.
  • When I added the RS1 sub, the new NAD receiver, and did the DIRAC configuration, the system became absolutely stunning. Like, otherworldly. Not overly loud (I don't think I've pushed it past like 60-60% in this relatively small space) but in terms of clarity and—most importantly—richness and depth. The SUB IS EVERYTHING. That and DIRAC. Well, honestly, I don't know what the magic components are, and how much they make up the whole.
Questions:
  1. What am I missing? Is there a component that I need? A tweak to the setup? A mistake I've made?
  2. Do I need to zero out my Genelec speakers (from the GLM configuration) and redo the DIRAC calibration?
  3. How do I get the most from the three components of my right/left setup when NAD/DIRAC only sees them as one speaker? Do I just zero everything out and trust Genelec to play all three speakers optimally?
  4. Assuming I get all the GLM zero-ing out fixed, and a really solid DIRAC calibration going, what's the next tier for what I have? Power cords? XLR cables? What's the next step in the optimization process?
Ok, that's it for now.

Thank you for reading and I appreciate any feedback.
 
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voodooless

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I would probably find a different spot for the 10” subs to better counteract room modes. Not sure what the measurements say though? Put those on the LFE.

Essentially, if you GLM everything, you’ll only need Dirac for the sub.

Don’t go buying any exotic cables, that is all nonsense!

Is the photo from your listening position? If so, why are the side surrounds in front of you?
 
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Grotti

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Wow!!! Beside the looks (my wife would NEVER accept anything like this in our relatively small apartment) this setup is a dream!

I am of no help here since I am the old fashioned 2 channel guy but I am sure, others will be able to answer your questions. I confess, that I am a little bit envious :p...
 

f1shb0n3

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You've assembled a great system!
What I would add to it is Front Highs and Rear Highs for Atmos. It's worth it, new movies come with great Atmos tracks (Dune!), Apple Music has increasing number of Spatial Audio songs.
 

dshreter

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Is the NAD treating the genelec stack plus genelec sub as a single speaker? And is it sending a high pass to it or full range?

That stack has a ton of bass handling capabilities so you need them running full range (or very close) to take full advantage of the w371a and sub. The JTR I would expect should be set to a fairly low frequency low pass so you’re taking advantage of the w371a’s characteristics vs overriding them.
 

Sancus

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@Sancus may be able to advise? He also has an awesome Genelec setup
Unfortunately don't have time to write a lot right now, but the subwoofer setup definitely seems strange to me. I'm not really sure why you would run stereo subs for full range L/R in a multi-channel setup. It's not too bad if the main purpose is stereo music, though...

For multi-channel you would really want to have all 3 of your subs used with bass management, but the NAD T778 doesn't actually have independent subwoofer outputs nor support Dirac Bass Control. Given the rather high cost of the whole setup, I personally would upgrade to a Monoprice HTP-1(or one of the other 16-channel AVPs with DLBC) and connect 3 subs directly to the AVP and optimize them with Dirac Bass Control.
 
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danielmiessler

danielmiessler

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You've assembled a great system!
What I would add to it is Front Highs and Rear Highs for Atmos. It's worth it, new movies come with great Atmos tracks (Dune!), Apple Music has increasing number of Spatial Audio songs.

Yes, I think that might be the next move.
 
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danielmiessler

danielmiessler

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For multi-channel you would really want to have all 3 of your subs used with bass management, but the NAD T778 doesn't actually have independent subwoofer outputs nor support Dirac Bass Control. Given the rather high cost of the whole setup, I personally would upgrade to a Monoprice HTP-1(or one of the other 16-channel AVPs with DLBC) and connect 3 subs directly to the AVP and optimize them with Dirac Bass Control.

Interesting!

My main use-case is indeed music, but I would like to get more independent value from the three subs.

I'm so happy with the NAD from an experience standpoint, though, that I'm hesitant to move away from it.

This is something to think about. Thank you!

What about the GLM situation? I have my Genelec speakers running a GLM setup from earlier so I guess they're managing the balance between the sub, woofer, and loudspeaker on each side.

What I'm not sure about is how that helps or hurts the overall situation with DIRAC? Is DIRAC getting the full level of control over the Genelec speakers if they see the whole 3-piece unit as one speaker?
 
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danielmiessler

danielmiessler

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Missing the second RS1. ;)
Who am I kidding, it's a dream system already.

Enjoy and stop making us jealous!
LOL, thank you.

I'm afraid the space can only handle one RS1. These things are godlike.
 
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danielmiessler

danielmiessler

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Is the NAD treating the genelec stack plus genelec sub as a single speaker? And is it sending a high pass to it or full range?

It has to be, I think, since there's only one output going to it on each side.
That stack has a ton of bass handling capabilities so you need them running full range (or very close) to take full advantage of the w371a and sub. The JTR I would expect should be set to a fairly low frequency low pass so you’re taking advantage of the w371a’s characteristics vs overriding them.

I haven't even touched the RS1 in terms of calibration or settings, so this is something I need to dig into. Thank you.

Would I do this on the RS1 itself, and then in DIRAC, in terms of the crossover stuff?
 

Sancus

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I'm so happy with the NAD from an experience standpoint, though, that I'm hesitant to move away from it.
You could also use a miniDSP and Multi-Sub Optimizer with 1 sub output on the NAD side. It's definitely more work and time to figure out compared to Dirac Bass Control. But it would let you keep the NAD.

What about the GLM situation? I have my Genelec speakers running a GLM setup from earlier so I guess they're managing the balance between the sub, woofer, and loudspeaker on each side.

What I'm not sure about is how that helps or hurts the overall situation with DIRAC? Is DIRAC getting the full level of control over the Genelec speakers if they see the whole 3-piece unit as one speaker?
No, it's not getting full control, but DIrac without the bass control module doesn't do a great job with multiple subs anyway so it's not a big deal. And that NAD only has 2 sub outs, IIRC. You're going to have to use GLM anyway with a W371A -- an AVP has no idea what to do with a separate woofer like that.

I would just make try to make the Genelec curve(using shelf filters or the sound character profiler) as close as possible to the Dirac one so they're not creating filters at cross purposes.
 

dshreter

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It has to be, I think, since there's only one output going to it on each side.


I haven't even touched the RS1 in terms of calibration or settings, so this is something I need to dig into. Thank you.

Would I do this on the RS1 itself, and then in DIRAC, in terms of the crossover stuff?
I’m sorry I don’t know the details of how NAD systems are configured. But it is typical to be able to choose between a high pass or full range treatment for the main speakers in the speaker setup. I suspect that should happen before Dirac.
 

cputoaster

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I will be interested in any further learnings from this setup. I am just installing a somewhat similar system but opted for an SDP-55 (not that much more than an NAD T778 if you search a bit) so I can connect the Genelecs digitally (Dante -> AES3, just for my OCD, probably not making a difference) and have DLBC (2x Arendal 1S Subs, probably making a difference). Running the Genelecs zeroed out on different channels with DIRAC atm, but will also experiment further when I have all speakers installed properly.
 

kongwee

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Look like more than 2meter than Genelec recommend for 8351B. Never audit the One series, so I don't know.
 
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