Optical/laser pickup

[JP]

As for evolution in styli / pick ups, I think the Audio Technica ART-1000 exhibits more genuine improvements in transducer design when it comes to improved sound:

Been done a few times some 40 years ago. Victor MC-L1000 being one.

Evolutionary leaps in cartridge design ended in the early 80’s. I haven’t seen anything truly new since, and most of the groundbreaking developments from that era we’ll likely never see again, such as vapor deposited boron pipe cantilevers.

 

[Wombat]

I guess it works (sound comes out)....but is it better that other existing options?

The FR was awful and his comments about noise floor are easy enough to solve without using lasers.

So I don't get the point of it.

As for evolution in styli / pick ups, I think the Audio Technica ART-1000 exhibits more genuine improvements in transducer design when it comes to improved sound:

I just had to find out if those 'spectacles' were primary coils or added dampers: http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/audio-technica-art1000- moving-coil-cartridge

 

[watchnerd]

I have this one. Haven’t played with it yet.

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What the heck is it?

Is it a MC with built in SUT like the old Ortofon SPUs?

 

[BDWoody]

I have this one. Haven’t played with it yet.

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Interesting what people have stashed away...

 

[watchnerd]

Been done a few times some 40 years ago. Victor MC-L1000 being one.

I had read about that in an article about the ART-1000. There was some kind of incremental improvement that was hard to do, and/or the ability to make them had been somewhat lost and had to be rebuilt.

I gather they're assembled by hand by some old Japanese lady, and have to have their output individually measured because they're all slightly different from spec.

 

[JP]

What the heck is it?

Is it a MC with built in SUT like the old Ortofon SPUs?

It’s an ‘optical’ cartridge.

 

[Frank Dernie]

"Back in the day" and I mean really back in the day Bourns Electronics who made precision potentiometers started a subsidiary called Euphonics which had the "MiniConic" phono cartridge. This was based on an elastic material with semiconductor properties. It was in the late sixties.
It failed as quickly as it popped up. It was supposed to put out a very high level signal that needed less gain and yielded a high signal to noise ratio. I think they had terrible reliability problems.

When I think of a laser phono pickup I think of various attempts to build non contact vinyl pickups non of which seem to have been very successful. Some had prices of $30,000 for a complete record player. They maybe only built a few probably by hand.

I think it will be possible for some one to use a stylus to cause modulation of light beams somehow to do the job a phono cartridge does and maybe do it with lower effective tip mass, lower stylus force and probably better performance. But I don't think anyone has actually done it yet. I would be interested in hearing about it if I am wrong.

https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Audio/60s/Audio-1966-03.pdf

See page 67 for the Euphonics Miniconic advert and page 51 for a competing solid state cartridge from Grado. 1966 Audio magazine was great!
there is also an article on measurements by the late great Norman Crowhurst a GIANT in the audio electronics field.

My view is that anything with a stylus has the same limitations and an optical rather than electrical method of transduction is unlikely to offer a worthwhile gain in any parameter except price...

 

[Frank Dernie]

I guess it works (sound comes out)....but is it better that other existing options?

The FR was awful and his comments about noise floor are easy enough to solve without using lasers.

So I don't get the point of it.

As for evolution in styli / pick ups, I think the Audio Technica ART-1000 exhibits more genuine improvements in transducer design when it comes to improved sound:

Not exactly a low tip mass solution though.

 

[Wombat]

My view is that anything with a stylus has the same limitations and an optical rather than electrical method of transduction is unlikely to offer a worthwhile gain in any parameter except price...

The analog record playing design was based on an integrated mechanical contact relationship between groove and stylus. I wonder how well the non- contact pickup can emulate this?

 

[anmpr1]

... think the Audio Technica ART-1000 exhibits more genuine improvements in transducer design when it comes to improved sound:

There is really not much that can be considered a 'new' design in phono reproduction. Placing coils at the stylus level is something unique, as far as I know. Whether the AT innovation is helpful? The only way to tell is to send a free sample to Ken Kessler. He'll write something nonsensical that no one can interpret, and then call it a bargain.

 

[anmpr1]

As far as phono cart innovations, Isamu Ikeda (Fidelity Research and I think Supex) made a line of cartridges without a cantilever. It's hard to tell from the picture, but the diamond rode on a little metal arc protruding, straight into the coils. Were not some of the early Decca cartridges made like this?

 

[Frank Dernie]

Were not some of the early Decca cartridges made like this

All Deccas have the sensor at the stylus and the "London" cartridges that succeeded them are nicer made versions of the same thing.
The Decca is one of my favourite cartridges.

 

[gene_stl]

I have this one. Haven’t played with it yet.

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I Love it!
Always fun to experiment. But probably there would be more of these things if any of them actually were an improvement.

 

[anmpr1]

I Love it!
Always fun to experiment. But probably there would be more of these things if any of them actually were an improvement.

I'm sure a lot of 'high end' stuff is different to be different. You pay for the privilege of owning limited edition gear. But it goes to show that there's not much new under the sun.

Speaking of paying, I took a look at turntables on ebay. What people are asking for old '70s gear is wild. On the other hand, there is no question that the build quality of mid range decks back then puts to shame something like this Schiitt. Someone is selling a NOS still in the box Kenwood KD-650. Asking four large. I checked, and in 1980 it was $400.00. $350.00 without the tonearm. So they are using 10 as the multiplier. Inflato Calculator says this is equivalent to 1200 current dollars. I might pay a thousand dollars for a NOS Kenwood 650. I wouldn't go much higher than a thousand. That said, I wouldn't take the Schiitt as a present. I wish someone was making new Kenwood 650s for a thousand dollars.

 

[gene_stl]

Perhaps I have been an audiophile too long. It seems to me that spending $5,000 on a phono cartridge and six figures on turntables has crossed the line of obscenity. Vinyl was great in its day and I keep a record player because I don't want to find digital versions of all of my recordings. But I wouldn't spend four HUNDRED on a Kenwood turntable let alone four "LARGE". jmo.

 

[anmpr1]

Perhaps I have been an audiophile too long. It seems to me that spending $5,000 on a phono cartridge and six figures on turntables has crossed the line of obscenity. Vinyl was great in its day and I keep a record player because I don't want to find digital versions of all of my recordings. But I wouldn't spend four HUNDRED on a Kenwood turntable let alone four "LARGE". jmo.

The KD 500 and 600 series were well built turntables, and good value, back in the '80s. They were certainly worth their retail price. Also, a customer could probably expect a little discount from list, or maybe the dealer would throw in a cartridge at his cost.

I too would not spend thousands for a turntable and thousands more for a cartridge. It's not important to me, since I have legacy gear in any case.

 

[gene_stl]

The audio hobby has a major subset of people that don't care about sound nor music. Their interest is another method of showing the world "I have unlimited disposable income!" I am not interested in equipment which targets such people. By the eighties I already had had numerous better turntables than the Kenwood and was more interested in CDs. I hope I get good enough at ripping vinyl that I don't have to bother with playing LPs anymore.

 

[anmpr1]

The audio hobby has a major subset of people that don't care about sound nor music. Their interest is another method of showing the world "I have unlimited disposable income!" I am not interested in equipment which targets such people. By the eighties I already had had numerous better turntables than the Kenwood and was more interested in CDs. I hope I get good enough at ripping vinyl that I don't have to bother with playing LPs anymore.

I've never understood the idea of ripping LPs. I guess the convenience, but I frankly never found anything I have on LP that I couldn't find on digits, if I wanted to pay, and needed it in file format.

For instance, when I was younger I was known to buy just about any record. I have a copy of a Nonesuch LP called "Animals of Africa". I think it is still sealed. I was sure I'd never find this digitized (not that I'd want to), but it's there if anyone's interested. LOL

https://www.nonesuch.com/albums/animals-of-africa

PS: I'd be interested to know the names of 'numerous' turntables you could buy that were appreciably better than the Kenwood, for $400.00, back then.

 

[gene_stl]

I also have numerous Nonesuch albums. They were great. I haven't done much research about finding things digitally but they need to be cheeep.

My current stable of turntables consists of a Technics SL-10 which I love and was pleased to discover (Here!) that the EPC 310 MC cartridge has one of the lowest effective tip masses. I was working on building a straight line arm when it became available. It is Still my daily driver.
I also have a Pioneer PLC 590 with a Stax arm. I have had several SME arms mostly earlier vintages. I think I still have a pair of straight ones left over from the linear tracking days.
I had a Big Rek O Kut with an SME and a V15 which escaped.
I have had several Thorens one was the small one with a Thorens arm and also the puck drive one with an SME but I don't remember the model number I think the first with the arm was a TD160 and the big one was like a TD123. It had a big iron platter and a drop mechnism to put it "in gear" for "tag cueing".
I also had several AR XA turntables (at least three or four) and my very first turntable purchase was a Garrard 50 series. I had a Lab 80 briefly too.
It was nice but it was a "changer" and we just can't have those can we. I love AR turntables. Great great value for the student buck.
I also still have an Aiwa linear tracking table from a stack that is surprisingly good though it is in the basement. It fell into my lap.
I had a Rabco straight line arm which was kind of junky and also a Harmon Kardon Rabco table that belonged to a friend who didn't like it and hoped I could make it behave better. It made noises. I couldn't do anything with it. an also ran.
I did have several inexpensive japanese turntables like Pioneer PL 50s and equivalents from Pacific Stereo where my stereo buddy always was wheeling and dealing with managers. They usually came to me for set up and check out and then moved on.
I also had an Empire either a 598 or 698(I think the only difference was gold or silver anodizing) I can't remember which. I think it was a 698 because it was gold colored. They made cartridges too (supposedly) and were a known brand. Their turntable was "fancy". When I got it I was horrified with the build quality. It was a piece of shit. I flipped it FAST. Big massive thing. Crappy aluminum castings gold anodized. High mass tonearm.
I think that is most of them. I was a busy boy in the seventies.
It looks like several other tts are trying to fall into my lap. Maybe a Bang and Olufsen and a Phase Linear straight line.

It never ends.

You mention "back then" in the later eighties especially I would not have been on the market for any turntable. I would have been looking for reasonably priced CD players. I got the Garrard and ARs in the late sixties. The Pioneer in 1978 and the SL10 in the early eighties. I did not intend to criticize the Kenwood. I just mostly thought of them for electronics. They had a brand of Ham equipment and electronic test gear (Trio Kenwood).
You think anyone would want to give me $4,000 for any of my turn tables. Have em contact me.

PS that nonesuch animals album is hilarious. You can listen to long samples. I have some goofy records like that too.

 

[anmpr1]

My current stable of turntables consists of ...

PS that nonesuch animals album is hilarious. You can listen to long samples. I have some goofy records like that too.

All those machines bring back solid memories. I'd forgotten about some. I too owned an AR deck. Very simple. Very primitive. I think it was sold with a Shure M91. Might have been an M75. But you know what? For the dollars it was built very solidly.

A lot of Nonesuch, and Vox Box records I bought in the campus book store. They were half price the usual thing. I still have the worst record ever made: 1950 Furwangler La Scala Ring on Murray Hill. 45 minutes per LP side, it said on the box. Basically unlistenable. But I've listened to it a couple of times. The joys of records!

PS: For those old records pressed in changer format, I use them that way. I think 4 is about all I've had on my Garrard. But it brings a smile to my face watching records drop, and the clunky mechanism cycle. I guess I'll never outgrow that.

PSS: Yes... some people who know these things say that Kenwood had first rate tuners and radio gear. FM was never my thing; so I never went that route. I guess it depended upon where you lived and available FM stations. I don't even know if FM is still a thing. I guess it is, for cars that don't use Sirius.