Opinions on measurements vs perception?

[creamygarlicdip]

First off I want to preface by saying I love the education and knowledge of audio I've received from this site and the reviews.

I'm in the market for a receiver and bookshelf speaker pairing to compliment my newly purchased lg bx 65 inch oled.

I'm looking at an entry level denon receiver and some dayton mk402x l and r bookshelves to start then move them to surrounds when I get some jbl 130s and matching jbl centre channel. I live in a bachelor apartment and dont plan to crank it up or shake with bass.

One thing I've thought about is the allocation of funds in a ht audio system. Is the difference between a s650h and an x2700h denon receiver that audible?

Im wondering how good a denon entry level will be with some of the aforementioned speakers or if I would really notice a big change with a higher end receiver

 

[Chrispy]

Been many years since my ears can detect differences in well spec'd gear. Unless you're talking tubes or some particular tweak. Pairing is about wine, not audio components (well, with most, there are some freaky combos out there).

I think your idea of starter set is eminently doable and should sound a lot better than the tv speakers. Personally I wouldn't go below X3xxx series from Denon so I'd get XT32 and a full set of pre-outs (and more), so your 650H model I think would do quite well vs the 2700. It's only when you push things differences show up (spl particularly). I'd worry more about the quality of the speakers rather than avr....

 

[MarkS]

If you listen blind, and at volumes that don't cause clipping (which in practice is anything below ear-bleeding speaker-destroying levels), you will notice NO change AT ALL with a higher-end receiver. Zero, zip, nada, nothing.

However, if you "listen" while knowing which receiver is in your system, the more expensive one is likely to "sound" a bit better. This is entirely due to optical illusion.

 

[creamygarlicdip]

Been many years since my ears can detect differences in well spec'd gear. Unless you're talking tubes or some particular tweak. Pairing is about wine, not audio components (well, with most, there are some freaky combos out there).

I think your idea of starter set is eminently doable and should sound a lot better than the tv speakers. Personally I wouldn't go below X3xxx series from Denon so I'd get XT32 and a full set of pre-outs (and more), so your 650H model I think would do quite well vs the 2700. It's only when you push things differences show up (spl particularly). I'd worry more about the quality of the speakers rather than avr....

My tv speakers and my Sony ct260h soundbar are both lousy. The tv speakers at least have some ok ability for me to hear dialogue in movies and tv shows. The sony bass and volume gets so uneven between loud sounds and voices I'm literally always watching English movies and tv shows with the closed captioning on now lol.

 

[creamygarlicdip]

If you listen blind, and at volumes that don't cause clipping (which in practice is anything below ear-bleeding speaker-destroying levels), you will notice NO change AT ALL with a higher-end receiver. Zero, zip, nada, nothing.

However, if you "listen" while knowing which receiver is in your system, the more expensive one is likely to "sound" a bit better. This is entirely due to optical illusion.

I'd be really curious to see what audiophiles and non audiophiles would prefer if a range of receivers were played for them in a blind test.

 

[Geert]

I'd be really curious to see what audiophiles and non audiophiles would prefer if a range of receivers were played for them in a blind test.

Real audiophiles won't join a blind test, as it´s an invalid test according to them. Something with alpha brain waves from what I understood ;-)

 

[DSJR]

In years gone by, we had relay switched 'comparators' and even then (mid to late 70's) if the volume levels were matched fairly closely, you couldn't really tell any difference in most amps. There were a couple of odd ones with cap coupling to the speakers (I remember the Quad 303 and Radford HD250) and these used to give variable results depending on the speaker selected and its bass tuning, but this is in ancient times now.

Just make sure you have ample power reserves, depending on your room, listening levels and of course the final speaker choice. These days and with almost anything out there, I'd regard 100WPC as a minimum myself - and I don't any longer play music loudly as I used to and would like to do now on occasion..

P.S. In the past, I was sceptical of a blind A-B test (as I was terrified of making a fool of myself). Today, I made a right twat of myself doing an A-B at home and getting totally confused if levels weren't exactly matched (in A-B the louder one always wins and it only needs to be half a dB on one channel to be noticeable).

 

[MaxBuck]

The OP's question reminds me of the debate between Intelligent Design and the Big Bang.

 

[Chrispy]

My tv speakers and my Sony ct260h soundbar are both lousy. The tv speakers at least have some ok ability for me to hear dialogue in movies and tv shows. The sony bass and volume gets so uneven between loud sounds and voices I'm literally always watching English movies and tv shows with the closed captioning on now lol.

LOL okay, I wasn't thinking of tv speakers or soundbars, don't use either and haven't (on the tv speakers, never had a soundbar of my own) in many many years....

 

[creamygarlicdip]

LOL okay, I wasn't thinking of tv speakers or soundbars, don't use either and haven't (on the tv speakers, never had a soundbar of my own) in many many years....

Yah I'm just ranting about how bad they are. I bought a soundbar years ago not knowing any better.

 

[Chrispy]

Yah I'm just ranting about how bad they are. I bought a soundbar years ago not knowing any better.

I just wouldn't group that in with the normal type of hi-fi gear we discuss....

 

[Jim Matthews]

I just wouldn't group that in with the normal type of hi-fi gear we discuss....

I have a Yamaha soundbar with wireless Subwoofer.

It's perfectly adequate for background music on quiet mornings, and watching movies. If it's all your budget affords, it's head and shoulders better than my starter hifi (circa 1980's)

 

[Chrispy]

I have a Yamaha soundbar with wireless Subwoofer.

It's perfectly adequate for background music on quiet mornings, and watching movies. If it's all your budget affords, it's head and shoulders better than my starter hifi (circa 1980's)

Some are probably at least as acceptable as Bose gear Depends what you called starter hifi in the 80s....I started in the 70s with far better than a soundbar....

 

[SIY]

Had you considered powered speakers? We use Vanatoo T0 with a subwoofer for our TV/movie setup, and the T1Es fed via Bluetooth in the dining room/kitchen. Pretty inexpensive but sounds good.

 

[Jim Matthews]

Some are probably at least as acceptable as Bose gear Depends what you called starter hifi in the 80s....I started in the 70s with far better than a soundbar....

MG1 and Dynaco 416 fed by a homebrew tube preamp and Dynavector on a Rabco ST-8. The cheapo stuff today is measurably better, with zero fuss.

Newbies starting out should not be concerned they're somehow shortchanged.

 

[Chrispy]

MG1 and Dynaco 416 fed by a homebrew tube preamp and Dynavector on a Rabco ST-8. The cheapo stuff today is measurably better, with zero fuss.

Newbies starting out should not be concerned they're somehow shortchanged.

I'd have to look up all that....but tubes, really?

 

[Jim Matthews]

I'd have to look up all that....but tubes, really?

Back in the day, I couldn't afford the best solid state preamp.

DIY tube preamps with RIAA were affordable.

 

[Chrispy]

Back in the day, I couldn't afford the best solid state preamp.

DIY tube preamps with RIAA were affordable.

I didn't consider them in the decade before, they were already not a consideration for me....YMMV. How did they measure up compared to ss phono stages? I just can't imagine wanting tubes whatsoever....

 

[Jim Matthews]

How did they measure up compared to ss phono stages? I just can't imagine wanting tubes whatsoever....

I lived under a few high power radio broadcast towers.

I couldn't keep RF out of my APT preamp, but a local DIY clone of the (then popular) Paragon preamp with a separate power supply was RF resistant.

I couldn't say how it measured, but that rig was pretty good on my budget.

I don't miss the Dyna 416 - it was stupid heavy.