Opinions on GR Research NX-Studio

[RickS]

The waveguide allows crossing the tweeter lower, I remember he mentioned that in one the YouTube videos. If it increases the distortion, I guess it’s a trade off he felt was worth it through subjective listening. From what I understand it’s hard to get a meaningful distortion measurement without the proper facilities. I got different readings on different occasions when I use REW, some distortion readings looked good some not as good but within reason considering speakers cause the most distortion.

Yes, distortion measurements need to be done under disciplined conditions. So may make sense that Danny is unwilling to publish his (hoping that he is doing some). However, his supplier should be doing them or farming them out and then he should feel confident to share those publicly. The fact that he does not even show a simple frequency response graph/impedance chart is at best unprofessional and definitely does not lend credibility to his claims for its superior performance.

If Danny does not get regular quality assurance reporting for each driver production run (which should have some basic measurements he could share), then all bets are off. The fact that he does not post even basic driver specs is not encouraging. He seems to like youtube so could record and post, but alas he just makes claims about greatness that make one suspicious as not even the most basic measurements are provided.

 

[Ktacos]

From what I understand it’s hard to get a meaningful distortion measurement without the proper facilities

For a tweeter it's easy.

 

[RickS]

As an example, GRS (Great Replacement Speakers, NOT GR Research) is Parts Express' supplier for the BG Neo3 equiv. Go there and you will find this...

Go to the GR Research website and you get this...

Weight 1 lbs
Dimensions 12.5 × 9.5 × 1 in


Pretty much the difference between a real driver supplier and what one can expect from GR Research. This appears to be the shipping specs but that is all there is. 

 

[Todd68]

So the tweeter measurements are good, why would GR version be worse? You sure the problem isn’t because you guys just don’t like the guy, so will nitpick no matter what? Anyone thinking of buying this tweeter probably already seen this spec chart, most other customers who buy the kits probably don’t give a hoot about looking at technical specs.

 

[Ktacos]

You sure the problem isn’t because you guys just don’t like the guy, so will nitpick no matter what?

The dude sucks for sure, but the criticisms here aren't nitpicking, they'd be valid for any person or company. I'd personally be able to meet any requests here for data on my own stuff, distortion, spinorama, impedence, etc... and I'm a nobody, and I'd do that all for free...

Thing about the market and hobby Danny is in, there are a ton of poor to average to great speaker designers out there but you don't know really know how to discern them from each other until you yourself achieve a high level of competence. Some well captured data is a good way to prove your designs/products are performant and do what you claim, and you'll find considerably more detailed info from random folks on diy forums. Danny's data he does provide is inadequate at best, his analysis methodology dated, and his claims tend to be bogus, but you wouldn't even know if you didn't delve into the whole process yourself. Pretty much everything Danny does comes into question and needs to be proven with some data.

 

[amirm]

From what I understand it’s hard to get a meaningful distortion measurement without the proper facilities.

For absolute measurements, sure. But Danny doesn't even do that (proper facility) for his speaker frequency measurements so why complain here now.

You can make near-field measurements and get pretty usable data. You see distortion measurements in my reviews already. Driver measurements are easier still.

 

[RickS]

So the tweeter measurements are good, why would GR version be worse?

Are they good (off-axis is not great)? BG actually made several variations of this tweeter. They offered different radiation patterns and sensitivities. I own BG towers. If I need a replacement need to know how well it matches. GR version may be different, better or worse. Cannot tell as there are NO specs.

You sure the problem isn’t because you guys just don’t like the guy, so will nitpick no matter what?

Prefer to stay to the facts. Danny says stuff that is true, half-true and wrong. It can take some sorting to determine and so we seek supporting technical evidence. It's not for everyone so it may frustrate you, but it is what most people seek here. Many ASR members have strong technical backgrounds and those that do not are often seeking their advice. Can find subjective opinion all over the internet. Those who come to ASR are usually looking for objective technical discussion.

Anyone thinking of buying this tweeter probably already seen this spec chart, most other customers who buy the kits probably don’t give a hoot about looking at technical specs.

This cannot be known without the exact specs. Most engineers simply don't guess unless forced to do so. Discipline is the basis for producing consistent, reliable products.

P.S. If someone does not care, likely they are relying on brand reputation. There is engineering behind it whether someone cares about the details or not.

 

[Geert]

You sure the problem isn’t because you guys just don’t like the guy, so will nitpick no matter what?

Danny chose to market the NX speakers as 'reference grade' studio monitors. Are you surprised such a label makes people critical? For studio monitors, getting insight in how the low end performs, what distortion looks like and what volume they can handle are basics. Have a look at what data Neumann publishes https://www.neumann.com/en-be/products/monitors/kh-120-II

 

[Todd68]

Danny chose to market the NX speakers as 'reference grade' studio monitors. Are you surprised such a label makes people critical? For studio monitors, getting insight in how the low end performs, what distortion looks like and what volume they can handle are basics. Have a look at what data Neumann publishes https://www.neumann.com/en-be/products/monitors/kh-120-II

I think he should have skipped the studio part and just called them NX monitor edition or NX Mini. I don’t think they are accurate enough to be used in a studio or meant for near field use.I think almost all users are not using them in a studio.

 

[Todd68]

Are they good (off-axis is not great)? BG actually made several variations of this tweeter. They offered different radiation patterns and sensitivities. I own BG towers. If I need a replacement need to know how well it matches. GR version may be different, better or worse. Cannot tell as there are NO specs.



Prefer to stay to the facts. Danny says stuff that is true, half-true and wrong. It can take some sorting to determine and so we seek supporting technical evidence. It's not for everyone so it may frustrate you, but it is what most people seek here. Many ASR members have strong technical backgrounds and those that do not are often seeking their advice. Can find subjective opinion all over the internet. Those who come to ASR are usually looking for objective technical discussion.



This cannot be known without exact specs. Most engineers simply don't guess unless forced to do so. Discipline is the basis for producing consistent, reliable products.

P.S. If someone does not care, likely they are relying on brand reputation. There is engineering behind it whether someone cares about the details or not.

That’s why I like this forum, to learn about the technical side of things. Some are set in their ways regarding “snake oil”, they won’t even visit here.

 

[JSmith]

Some are set in their ways regarding “snake oil”, they won’t even visit here.

Maybe they think ignorance is bliss... when in fact the reality is, knowledge is power.


JSmith

 

[Todd68]

This is in room response at listening position without the subs. I measured when I first set up my NX Oticas. I didn’t use any EQ. Does it look okay? I measured both playing but I know you should measure one at a time to evaluate easier.

I can adjust the highs with toe in:

 

[MaxBuck]

Understanding that GR "Research" speakers aren't especially flat, I have to say that speakers involve much more subjectivity than electronic components. Narrow vs. broad dispersion, avoidance of peaks in regions we're especially sensitive to, bass extension, beneficial room interaction, many other things. Perhaps even the vagaries of our own hearing frequency response.

If people genuinely like the way Danny's speakers sound, I can't condemn them for it. But I doubt they'd appeal to me.

 

[tmtomh]

I don't see why there's any need to trash Danny or GR Research - we go by the measurements, and it appears this speaker measures decently but not great, and it also appears we would ideally like to see more thorough/precise independent measurements to get a full picture of its performance. If GR is making specific claims about this speaker that you feel are demonstrably false or exemplify harmful audiophile BS, sure, call those claims out. But I don't get the point of ad hominem attacks lodged in every thread where a GR product is discussed. To put it another way, I would hope that this thread would have much less negativity directed at Danny and GR than a thread about a GR "premium" AC cord - the negativity should be responsive and proportional to the actual objective performance/merits or demerits of the product.

As for this specific design, I think an open-baffle tweeter that's open only at the top, with that angled rear waveguide/top surface sunken into the speaker, is both very interesting and very strange. I can't imagine it could be very good for the treble dispersion performance, but for all I know its negatives in that area could be minor and the open-baffle (or IMHO semi-open baffle) design might produce some kind of sonic character that some folks notice and really enjoy. For people who have the disposable income and like to have 2-3 speaker systems in-house at any given time, maybe this one offers something fun or enjoyable to them. I feel like I can live and let live without surrendering my prerogative to insist on measurement-based discussion.

For me, what most interests me about this design is to what extent, and in what way, the unusual box design and tweeter arrangement impacts the measurements, and therefore impacts the speaker's sound in ways that might plausibly be audible.

 

[RickS]

I don't see why there's any need to trash Danny or GR Research - we go by the measurements, and it appears this speaker measures decently but not great, and it also appears we would ideally like to see more thorough/precise independent measurements to get a full picture of its performance. If GR is making specific claims about this speaker that you feel are demonstrably false or exemplify harmful audiophile BS, sure, call those claims out. But I don't get the point of ad hominem attacks lodged in every thread where a GR product is discussed. To put it another way, I would hope that this thread would have much less negativity directed at Danny and GR than a thread about a GR "premium" AC cord - the negativity should be responsive and proportional to the actual objective performance/merits or demerits of the product.

As for this specific design, I think an open-baffle tweeter that's open only at the top, with that angled rear waveguide/top surface sunken into the speaker, is both very interesting and very strange. I can't imagine it could be very good for the treble dispersion performance, but for all I know its negatives in that area could be minor and the open-baffle (or IMHO semi-open baffle) design might produce some kind of sonic character that some folks notice and really enjoy. For people who have the disposable income and like to have 2-3 speaker systems in-house at any given time, maybe this one offers something fun or enjoyable to them. I feel like I can live and let live without surrendering my prerogative to insist on measurement-based discussion.

For me, what most interests me about this design is to what extent, and in what way, the unusual box design and tweeter arrangement impacts the measurements, and therefore impacts the speaker's sound in ways that might plausibly be audible.

Yes, fine going by the measurements. However, unless you have some measurements I have not seen, we only have Danny’s and that means none below 200 Hz. The posted GR spec says 70 Hz (unbounded). Not very impressive at the price being charged.

I would not buy or recommend someone risk a purchase without knowing more about the bass performance. A finished one is $3000 and what about any warranty? Is there any? At $3000 (or more), this speaker faces some serious competition. I would more likely recommend an Aspen FR5. Or could have a BMR Monitor pair for $2200. So leaving Danny out of consideration, the speaker itself is outclassed without offering some credible reference.

 

[tmtomh]

Yes, fine going by the measurements. However, unless you have some measurements I have not seen, we only have Danny’s and that means none below 200 Hz. The posted GR spec says 70 Hz (unbounded). Not very impressive at the price being charged.

I would not buy or recommend someone risk a purchase without knowing more about the bass performance. A finished one is $3000 and what about any warranty? Is there any? At $3000 (or more), this speaker faces some serious competition. I would more likely recommend an Aspen FR5. Or could have a BMR Monitor pair for $2200. So leaving Danny out of consideration, the speaker itself is outclassed without offering some credible reference.

Makes total sense, Rick. I went to GR’s web site but I must’ve misunderstood the pricing - I thought it was about $1400 for the assembled version. At 3k, yes I agree with you.

 

[Todd68]

$1400 for the kit, at least you know what you’re getting as far as parts quality and solid well made cabinet flat packs. If you don’t enjoy building things then I wouldn’t consider them. Cause I guess the measurements are bested buy some lower cost options, if that’s the top priority. Also, you need subs to get the most out of them, not unlike most other small speakers.

 

[defec1]

Full disclosure: I own a set of GR Research Paradox 1 speakers with upgraded woofers and series crossovers, which I used for years until I moved. I never found the time to dial everything back in—subs, etc. I really did enjoy them, though, and now that I’m moving again, I may take the time to set them up once more. However, the Focal inverted tweeters have foam surrounds that may have deteriorated with age, and the driver is no longer being made.

Back when these speakers came out, Danny was one of the few who placed real importance on measurements to sell his products. I know they seem primitive compared to today’s standards, though. If you're older, you’ll remember how we were pretty much in the dark when it came to that.

On a side note, another person, Frank Van Alstine, was hated for insisting that cables were a waste of money. He lost a lot of business by not embracing them. He used to write a newsletter called Audio Basics, which covered such topics. You can download them from his company’s website under the Resources section:

Audio Basics Newsletters

I recommend checking them out for historical interest. By the way, I’ve spent more money than I’d like to admit on cables, and most of them are just sitting in a box collecting dust.

Frank and Danny were, in a way, prototypes of the spirit behind this site.

 

[Purité Audio]

Doesn’t Danny sell anmongst others expensive mains cable?
Keith

 

[defec1]

I'm sure that he does. He wasn't part of the cables don't matter club which was just a very small lone group people that were looked at more so trolls. Things have sure gotten much better for us these days to know what's good/bad.