Opinions / experience with Audiophonics.fr?

[Fahzz]

My Audiophonics S250NC stopped working properly, still under warranty. I contacted their customer service. At first they doubted that it was an amplifier problem, and asked me to ship it to them in France at my expense. Since I'm in the US, shipping cost would have been a couple of hundred dollars (for a $450 amp!!!). After several attempts, I got lucky and found someone who was qualified to look at it here in the States, and they determined that the unit was in fact broken, and also explained what the problem was. I forwarded that information to Audiophonics, they sent me a mailing label, and I sent the unit back to Audiophonics, they fixed it, and I got it back within a week. Put it back in the system this morning, and so far so good.

This is what they said the fault was:
"We have found the fault on your amplifier,
A ceramic capacitor in the Power ON circuit have been remplaced."
They honored the warranty, and I found them to be responsive, and their repair claim tracking system is first rate.

Couple of caveats:
Keep potential shipping return costs in mind when you buy products from outside the US.
It was very difficult for me to find someone locally who repairs contemporary audio products such as Class D amplifiers, so if you have a problem, your only option may be dealing with the seller who is thousands of miles away.

 

[Fahzz]

Judge for yourself. Episode One is summarized above. This is a verbatim transcript (last name and address redacted) of my second interaction with Audiophonics:

EPISODE TWO

Concerned product : 14185 - AUDIOPHONICS MPA-S250NC XLR Amplificateur de Puissance Class D Stéréo Ncore NC252MP 2x250W 4 Ohm

Michael -- 2024-09-29 -15:06

Defective product - Please see prior ticket # 20391. This unit has been previously repaired and was returned to me a couple of months ago. I am now having identical issues, where the amplifier stops working, even though the LED is on. This may be heat related, because it cuts out after running for a while. The next morning It will run OK, but later in the day it will cut out again. It doesn't run hot, and it's in a very well ventilated location.

I would like a full refund as soon as possible. I've wasted a lot of time (and money ) trying to solve this problem. Please send me a shipping label so I can return this unit and get my money back.

Thank you.

M Farley

M. Greg -- 2024-09-30 -10:21

Hello,



Unfortunately this product is no longer covered by the warranty

We will not be able to take back this product that is more than 2 years old.

If you wish, we can make a repair diagnosis

You will have to return the product to us at your expense for the shipping costs and we will contact you to give you the amount of the repair.

Looking forward to hearing from you

Best regards

Michael -- 2024-09-30 -17:40

You "repaired" this two months ago - you don't stand by your repairs?

Shipping this will cost me $200 for a $400 amplifier. That doesn't make sense. Please reconsider this decision.

I'll accept a replacement unit if you don't want to make a refund.



Michael -- 2024-09-30 -18:35

Follow up: In reviewing ticket # 20391 I note that this unit initially failed sometime in late April 2024, and was either inoperable or en route back and forth for evaluation and repair until the end of July 2024. Thus I lost the use of the amplifier for more than three months due to the defect, and the obvious argument is that that three-months should be excluded from your two year warranty period. Once again I ask for a refund or a brand-new replacement.

M. Greg -- 2024-10-01 -10:01

Hello,



as a commercial I can offer you this

I provide you with a UPS return label for an amount of €70

we carry out a diagnosis of the product

If the fault is the same we will take care of the repairs

if it is another fault unfortunately the product is no longer covered by the warranty you will be asked to pay the repair and shipping costs

Does this suit you?

Looking forward to hearing from you

Best regards

Michael -- 2024-10-01 -16:36

That is not acceptable. You are asking me to invest more time and money into a unit that has already failed twice in less than 18 months.

In reviewing ticket #20391 I see that I was repeatedly advised that the difficulty I was having was not amplifier related, and as a result I unnecessarily replaced an AVR on June 1st, 2024, which did not solve the problem. It was only after I paid to ship it and have it evaluated here in the US that you agreed to pay shipping to France where it was determined that the unit was in fact defective.

Now less than two months after repair, it has failed again. I've had enough aggravation and expense with this and I repeat my request for a refund or replacement.



M. Sav -- 2024-10-01 -16:41

Hello,



You will neverbe refunded or exchanged without a diagnossis by our after sale service.



Best regards

Michael -- 2024-10-01 -17:55

Ok - we're done here.

Add response

 

[thunderchicken]

That’s terrible, I’m sorry you’re dealing with that.

I had a great experience with them, but I have not tried to return anything. In the US, we expect no-hassle returns and it sounds like your return is all-hassle.

Thanks for sharing. I will keep this in mind if I ever want to buy something more than toy grade from them.

 

[voodooless]

In France, any repair is covered by a six month warranty. And actually the original 2 year warranty is halted for this time as well.

So you are entitled to a repair under warranty of the original repair! It doesn’t even matter if your from the EU or not.

 

[Yersinia Bestmate]

In France, any repair is covered by a six month warranty. And actually the original 2 year warranty is halted for this time as well.

So you are entitled to a repair under warranty of the original repair! It doesn’t even matter if your from the EU or not.

Really? Sounds almost too good to be true.

If that is the case, @Fahzz should remind Audiophonics to abide by the customer protection legislation of France and that there is - of course - the possibility to contact SignalConso and/or European Consumer Centre France and see what they think about the case at hand.

 

[Fahzz]

Really? Sounds almost too good to be true.

If that is the case, @Fahzz should remind Audiophonics to abide by the customer protection legislation of France and that there is - of course - the possibility to contact SignalConso and/or European Consumer Centre France and see what they think about the case at hand.

I've wasted too much time and effort (and a little bit of money) on this already. I learned some lessons from this deal for sure.

 

[danielha]

Obviously, there are some différences. However Fahzz, consider that you baught a car instead of an audio equipment. Would you demand the same when facing problems more than a year after buying it ?

Even more, would you even consider buying a car from a dealer 3000 miles from your home.

I'm french and baught a few things from US web stores (mostly photography related). I know I that in case of problem on what I baught, I might loose money because sending back and forth to the usa is too expensive.

I would say you experienced an issue which is not entirely due to the good or bad will on the seller part or on the buyer part.

Daniel

 

[Yersinia Bestmate]

Obviously, there are some différences. However Fahzz, consider that you baught a car instead of an audio equipment. Would you demand the same when facing problems more than a year after buying it ?

Even more, would you even consider buying a car from a dealer 3000 miles from your home.

I'm french and baught a few things from US web stores (mostly photography related). I know I that in case of problem on what I baught, I might loose money because sending back and forth to the usa is too expensive.

I would say you experienced an issue which is not entirely due to the good or bad will on the seller part or on the buyer part.

Daniel

So you're saying that all in all Audiophonics did nothing wrong, nor did the customer and that's it, case closed, money lost?

If everything stated in previous posts is correct, I'd say Audiophonics is trying to f*** a customer into a**. They are quite obviously breaking the customer protection legislation of France and if the halt-of-warranty-while-inspection-ongoing and 6 month warranty for a repair done under warranty are true, they're doing so boldly and without shame. That is a crime, not something to be brushed aside as if it's not a big deal.

So they are the only one to blame here, not the customer. This is purely and absolutely wrongdoing on their part. It doesn't matter how many thousand or million miels away the customer is, they still have to obey the laws of the country their business is situated in, and that is France.

 

[danielha]

Yersinia,

Please do not make any asumption about french laws as you do not seem to know about them.

My message to Fahzz was just about the risk to buy abroad. All the issue here is a problem because the seller does not (want to) pay for international parcel. Warranty happens in the seller's country, not in the buyer's. So who is to pay when seller and buyer are faaaar away from each other ??? Unless the seller clearly writes on his web site "Don't worry if you ever have problems with your gear, we will pay for percel...", consider this charge is upon you !

Good advice : Next time you buy abroad, contact the seller and ask them about warranty and the way it works intenationally.

Daniel

 

[Haskil]

En France, toute réparation est couverte par une garantie de six mois. Et en fait, la garantie initiale de 2 ans est également suspendue pendant cette période.

Vous avez donc droit à une réparation sous garantie de la réparation d'origine ! Peu importe que vous soyez originaire de l'UE ou non.

C'est exactement cela : en France, la durée de garantie est prolongée de toute la durée pendant laquelle l'appareil est entre les mains de l'atelier agréé qui le répare.
Dans ce cas, il faut compter au moins le délai d'expédition depuis les Etats-Unis... Le premier avocat venu ou, plus facilement, une association de consommateurs comme la redoutable UFC-Que Choisir, qui oblige les grands industriels et les banques à mettre la clé sous la porte en France, convaincrait facilement Audiophonics que la période d'immobilisation doit débuter dès l'envoi du premier mail par le client entraînant un retard dans la prise en charge du problème en raison de la mauvaise réactivité d' Audiophonique...

Ce qui veut dire que cet ampli serait de toute façon considéré en France comme étant encore protégé par la garantie légale de deux ans...

Et mieux que ça : si le problème est le même que le précédent, on peut définir la garantie contre tout "défaut de conception ou de fabrication" et cette garantie est encore plus longue...
Ou n'a pas été réparé correctement la première fois et dans tous les cas dans ce cas, la réparation est garantie
"Si l'appareil tombe à nouveau en panne peu de temps après l'intervention d'un réparateur du service après-vente, le client peut demander un dédommagement ou une nouvelle intervention gratuite. Dans cette situation, le réparateur peut en effet se voir reprocher un examen insuffisant de l'appareil."

Maintenant, il existe une autre possibilité si cet ampli n'est pas connu pour avoir ce type de panne : c'est qu'il ne soit pas utilisé comme il devrait l'être : cela serait surprenant tout comme il serait surprenant qu'un seul exemplaire de ce modèle d'ampli soit victime de ce type de panne...

 

[voodooless]

Even better: if the amps was fully replaced, a new 2-year period would start.

I do think it's acceptable to ask for the consumer to pay for shipment in these particular cases though, because there is no obligation to do so for outside EU consumers.

 

[danielha]

Haskill,

You right about the warranty. But the issue is not about the warranty. It's about the costs when shipping any package between France and USA. These costs are not covered by warranty (as far as I understand the way any warranty works in France / EU).

Daniel

 

[voodooless]

But the issue is not about the warranty.

It literally is:

Unfortunately this product is no longer covered by the warranty

We will not be able to take back this product that is more than 2 years old.

 

[danielha]

voodooless,

Post #81 by Fahzz :
My Audiophonics S250NC stopped working properly, still under warranty. I contacted their customer service. At first they doubted that it was an amplifier problem, and asked me to ship it to them in France at my expense. Since I'm in the US, shipping cost would have been a couple of hundred dollars (for a $450 amp!!!).

Post #82 by Fahzz :
We will not be able to take back this product that is more than 2 years old.

it's not a warranty issue.

I rest my case !

Have a nice day.
Daniel

 

[Yersinia Bestmate]

Yersinia,

Please do not make any asumption about french laws as you do not seem to know about them.

My message to Fahzz was just about the risk to buy abroad. All the issue here is a problem because the seller does not (want to) pay for international parcel. Warranty happens in the seller's country, not in the buyer's. So who is to pay when seller and buyer are faaaar away from each other ??? Unless the seller clearly writes on his web site "Don't worry if you ever have problems with your gear, we will pay for percel...", consider this charge is upon you !

Good advice : Next time you buy abroad, contact the seller and ask them about warranty and the way it works intenationally.

Daniel

As I wrote in my post: "If everything stated in previous posts is correct". But anyway it really is about the warranty, as warranty period dictates who pays the shipping costs. I'll try to explain how I see this:

In my opinion it boils down to this - Audiophonics is a French company and it must abide by French legislation when it comes to warranty (we have at least two comments here verifying the claims that a 6 month warranty is applied to the repairs done in approved workshop [though Audiophonics state themselves that there's a 3 month warranty for the repairs] and that the original 2-year warranty time is halted during the repairs. If Audiophonics themselves state that they'll cover the shipping costs in case there's a warranty covered fault in the product (?), it really is quite simple - the original warranty was still still in fact valid at the time the repaired product broke again and Audiophonics should, according to their own terms of use and according to the law, cover the shipping costs and repair the product or replace the product with a new one.

When I bought an amplifier from Audiophonics and I found out it to have a fault, they took it back and covered the costs as they should. Funny thing is they knew the product was sold with the defict, yet sold it still, perhaps hoping that no-one notices. This really doesn't look good. Still, I've ordered stuff from them afterwards without problems. Guess there's a silver lining in every cloud, even dubious-looking ones..

Edit: a discalimer - the above only applies if Audiophonics terms of use state that they cover the costs of shipping in case of a fault in a product sold by them. In my case they covered the shipping to and fro.

 

[voodooless]

it's not a warranty issue.

It is clearly both a warranty and a shipping issue. These are two separate things, at least when you live outside of the EU.

The proper response would have been to say that they cover this under warranty given that the product was already repaired and the consumer wasn't able to use it for 3 months, but are not obligated to pay for shipping. Maybe the conclusion in the end would have been the same, but at least they would have done it the correct way.

 

[Haskil]

Haskill,

You right about the warranty. But the issue is not about the warranty. It's about the costs when shipping any package between France and USA. These costs are not covered by warranty (as far as I understand the way any warranty works in France / EU).

Daniel

The problem is twofold: warranty and shipping costs. The problem also exists here in France.
Furthermore, I don't know if the repair guarantee is legally 6 months or less in France. What I know is that a poorly done repair can be opposed by the repairer... but hey, an expertise for a product at 400 euros is starting to be impractical...
Here, there is therefore a double wolf: if guaranteed, apparently AUdiophonics will cover a return ticket of 70 euros. If not guaranteed: nothing at all...
However, there is almost certainly a guarantee in the present case: contractual for two years if we remove the period of immobilization for repair 1; warranty of repair if the same component is at fault, a simple ceramic condo which explodes in the power supply... like in many Yamahas for example... and therefore also perhaps the legal guarantee which lasts, lasts, lasts.. . for design and manufacturing defects... After all, this copy may be part of a series which has this defect...

 

[Fahzz]

For the sake of completeness I'm posting the first episode of this endeavor, again verbatim except for removal of my last name and address:

Last message date	Incidence reference	Order ID	Incidence type	Incidence state	Status
- 2024-07-24 - 12:14	20391	374515	Defective product	Opened	Read	View
Concerned product : 14185 - AUDIOPHONICS MPA-S250NC XLR Amplificateur de Puissance Class D Stéréo Ncore NC252MP 2x250W 4 Ohm​ Michael -- 2024-05-01 -02:29 Defective product? The amplifier is frequently cutting out when I switch sources on my AVR. I went through multiple AVR resets to no avail. I tried replacing the interconnects but that didn't solve the problem. I removed the unit from my system, and replaced it with another amp, and the problem disappeared. I don't know what the repair/replacement/refund process is, but I want to see what can be done. Love the amp otherwise. M. Sav -- 2024-05-02 -09:30 Hello, Does the front led light OFF itself ? Best regards Michael -- 2024-05-02 -17:36 The light stays on but no sound from speakers. M. Sav -- 2024-05-03 -09:29 Hello, That's not an amplifier issue. Can you test with an other préamplifier ? Best regards Michael -- 2024-05-03 -15:08 I tested with another amplifier that's running perfectly - same set up. Before I contacted you, I replaced the interconnects (with brand new cables) to the Audiophonics amp and it cut out immediately. Any other suggestions as to how to find the cause? M. Sav -- 2024-05-03 -15:44 Hello, After a power OFF , then power ON , does the sound comes again ? Best regards Michael -- 2024-05-03 -17:14 I'll play around with it this weekend. Thanks. Michael -- 2024-05-05 -21:30 So I set the Audiophonics amp up in my system again today. I accidentally recreated the problem by plugging in the 12v trigger into the amp. Doing that immediately shut off the main speakers, and I was able to do this several times. Right now the 12v trigger is disconnected, and the amp is working properly. I'm wondering if the trigger somehow shuts the amp down when I switch sources ??? M. Sav -- 2024-05-06 -10:01 Hello, If you are using a trigger from the preamplifier, You must use a Mono jack cable and place the front power button in OFF mode. In my opinion, the issue not comes from a failure of the amplifier. Best regards Michael -- 2024-05-14 -17:22 Any reports of failures of the 12v trigger on this unit? M. Sav -- 2024-05-15 -09:36 Good morning, We never have a trigger failure in this model. We have sold over a thousand of this copy. Best regards Michael -- 2024-06-09 -18:10 Brand new Denon 4800 AVR - same problem. Today I added the audiophonics back into my system using the 12v trigger - turned it on, trigger turned the amplifier on, front LED came on and it played and sounded perfectly. Turned the AVR off. Amplifier went off too.Turned it back on and trigger stopped working. No sound from speakers, but the subwoofer plays. Turned the Audiophonics on manually, LED lights up but still no sound. So it worked then it stopped??? What are my options for repair, refund, or replacement? M. Sav -- 2024-06-10 -10:53 According to the information brought to our attention, your product seems defective and requires a return to our workshop. If you have any doubt about the fact that the product is really defective (configuration, connections ...), ask us advice before sending it back. If ever the product is functional in our workshop, we will charge a participation fee for testing and return of 30 €. Below you will find a pre-filled RMA form to print and enclose in the parcel. Please write the RMA number on the outside of the package for faster processing of your return. Dont forget to check the CN23 Form "return good" if you are not in Europe We will get back to you upon receipt of the product. Best regards. Michael -- 2024-06-10 -15:55 Can you please provide the address I should send this to? M. Sav -- 2024-06-10 -16:02 Hello, AUDIOPHONICS 10 rue Marcelin Berthelot 33270 FOIRAC FRANCE PHONE 0033 09 52 16 82 68 email : [email protected] Best regards Michael -- 2024-06-11 -15:17 I'm going to be on vacation next few weeks, and I'll make arrangements to get this sent to you when I return. Do you have a preferred delivery service? M. Greg -- 2024-06-11 -15:30 Hello, You can use UPS or fedex Best regards Michael -- 2024-07-05 -22:47 Shipping cost to France was prohibitive, so I sent it to a technician here in the US. his findings: I was able to reproduce your issue and so opened it up to look over the daughtercard used to interface the inputs. I did not see any obvious issue so I tried reseating it. Along the way, I stopped getting output even when the power switch was on. This meant it could still be the amp so swapped in a Hypex evaluation board and started getting output again. So, on the positive side, the expensive amp portion seems fine. Not so good is the daughtercard as it died more completely and is now more work to replace. Am not sure your urgency, but if Audiophonics is willing to send a replacement, would be the cheapest and simplest fix. Another approach would replace it with the Hypex eval board and the trigger input board I quoted earlier. This would require resoldering all the XLR inputs and the switch and trigger wiring. What are my options here? Michael Farley -- 2024-07-07 -18:56 New follow up from the tecnichian: An update for you as your amp was connected to my speaker test setup and happened to cycle power on it and it started working again. This made me curious and so went through another round of testing. I reproduced the problem after a time again and so now realized the problem was a more intermittent one. I put the eval board in and all was good again, but took one additional step, I did the same power cycling. Shortly into my testing, there was no output again AND the clip LED came on the EVAL board. This indicates an uncorrectable error in the amp output. So, looks like the amp after all. Michael Farley -- 2024-07-07 -19:13 Since I bought this less than two years ago, I'm asking for a refund or a replacement. Please let me hear from you. I've spent way too much time on this issue. Thank you. M. Greg -- 2024-07-08 -10:21 Hello, According to the informations brought to our attention, your product seems defective and requires a return to our workshop. Below you will find a pre-filled RMA form to print and enclose in the parcel. If you have any doubt about the fact that the product is really defective (configuration, connections ...), ask us advice before sending it back. If ever the product is functional in our workshop, we will charge a participation fee for testing and return of 30 €. As it is a breakdown on unpacking we will cover the return postage. Attached to this message is a pre-paid Colissimo label to return the product. The RMA number supplied with the return label is valid for 10 days from today. The return costs are our expense, you just have to deposit parcel in your post office. If you encounter any problem with the prepaid return label, please do not ship the package yourself and come back to us indicating the problem encountered. In case of shipping at your expense, we can only refund the maximum amount of shipping costs of your initial order. We will contact you at the reception of your parcel. Best regards. File attachment :: Michael Farley -- 2024-07-09 -14:57 Thank you. The amplifier is being shipped back from my technician, and I will send to you once I have it. Michael Farley -- 2024-07-12 -18:34 The amplifier was shipped back to Audiophonics a few minutes ago. One last remark from my technician: "I did not try any extraordinary measures and do not have a heat imaging camera, but likely this is a heat issue as it happens after the unit warms up. Hopefully you mentioned to Audiophonics so they can reproduce the failure readily." Keep me posted on developments. Thanks. M. Sav -- 2024-07-15 -10:58 Hello, I will contact you at receive Best regards M. Sav -- 2024-07-19 -14:13 Hello, Your package has been received by our service. We will get back to you as soon as possible. Regards, Michael -- 2024-07-19 -15:26 Please tell your technician about the findings of my technician, that I sent previously. Might be helpful. Thanks. M. Sav -- 2024-07-23 -11:43 Hello, We have found the fault on your amplifier, A ceramic capacitor in the Power ON circuit have been remplaced. I will send your amplifier back today Can you confirm the return adress Best regards Michael -- 2024-07-23 -18:02 Return address is correct. Thank you. Michael -- 2024-07-23 -21:01 Please send me a tracking number when it is is mailed. M. Sav -- 2024-07-24 -09:10 Hello, You will received he tracking in the evening. it is 9h00 am in France now. Best regards Michael -- 2024-07-24 -12:12 Thanks for your help. Add response

From <https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/module/incidences/contact>

 

[Willem]

I think all of this shows that buying from a company at the other side of the world is a risky business given the high cost of transport. For the same reason, as a European I would never buy something similar from a US company. It also underscores that transatlantic shipping costs are extortionate. Sending something similar inside the EU would be some two dozen euros, I guess.

 

[frabor]

That's a new word. LOL.

Trustable. Surely you mean trustworthy.