Opinion? RPi4 with USB DACs

[Newk Yuler]

One way the Pi4 is better than the Pi3 is the USB and Ethernet are now on separate buses. That was a problem for the Pi3 that created issues when using USB DACs. One popular solution was to use a SPDIF hat to feed a DAC and an excellent example of that was the Allo DigiOne Signature that Amir measured with extraordinary results.

If the Pi4 has eliminated the noisy mixed bus issue of the Pi3, is the Pi4 now as great with USB DACs as a common PC or Mac?

Your opinions, experiences, and testimonies are gratefully requested.

 

[Zensō]

If the Pi4 has eliminated the noisy mixed bus issue of the Pi3, is the Pi4 now as great with USB DACs as a common PC or Mac?

I’m running two RPi4’s s as network streamers, one feeding an RME ADI-2 DAC FS and the other feeding a JDS Labs Element II, both over USB. I detect no difference when compared to streaming from a MacBook Pro or iPad Pro.

 

[EdW]

RPI4/4GB works perfectly with the Topping D90. No USB noise detectable. I went searching for any by feeding the 2V O/P into a 200mV line input at max volume and listening to the lead in track on a 96/24 recording. Nothing audible with my ear close to to the drivers except studio background noise.

 

[somebodyelse]

One way the Pi4 is better than the Pi3 is the USB and Ethernet are now on separate buses. That was a problem for the Pi3 that created issues when using USB DACs.

The problem wasn't that USB and Ethernet were on the same bus - that's a widely spread myth. There's an obscure interrupt response latency issue that's more likely to occur with certain combinations of software, networking and hardware, but it can occur when ethernet isn't being used, or not occur at all with ethernet streaming 24/384 and higher. Technical details in the kernel bug report - unfortunately the root cause(s) haven't been found and fixed.

The USB noise issue (separate from the pop/crackle issue above) is the modern incarnation of the old mains hum, both being caused by grounding issues with single ended interconnects (or balanced if you have pin 1 problems.) The Pi doesn't seem to be any more or less prone to it than almost any other USB source - the exceptions would be the very few (if any) with inbuilt USB isolators.

 

[rcmo]

I’m running two RPi4’s s as network streamers, one feeding an RME ADI-2 DAC FS and the other feeding a JDS Labs Element II, both over USB. I detect no difference when compared to streaming from a MacBook Pro or iPad Pro.

Ditto. RPi4 -> RME ADI-2 and RPi4- > KEF LS50W2

 

[mermayer]

I got the Topping D10s USB DAC today and he works perfectly on my Pi4 with RuneAudio. Play all formats up to DSD256 without noises.

 

[Vaskis]

I got the Topping D10s USB DAC today and he works perfectly on my Pi4 with RuneAudio. Play all formats up to DSD256 without noises.

@mermayer can you share more of your setup. thinking about the same combination Pi4 & D10s.

 

[mermayer]

@mermayer can you share more of your setup. thinking about the same combination Pi4 & D10s.

That is very easy:
Download the rAudio-1 image for RPi 4 from the follwing location: rAudio 1
and write an image file to a micro SD card (8GB or more).
The how-to, install and config is described on the same site.

Connect the D10s DAC to the RPi and and he is recognized immediately.
That's all.

 

[Vaskis]

Yhea, that's clear, thanks.

I was thinking more of other links in you audio chain and the practical side of use.
1. Pi4 is 2gb version? I think for streaming 2gb should be more then enough, but some reserves as +2Gb can worth invest to make Pi4 more useful later down the road.
2. do you use original basic case and power supply? power supply could be important, because Pi4 powers also D10s.
3. connection through rca to power amp? (D10s works as interface adapter and DAC in the same time)
4. how do you use playback, only phones app as remote or you have screen for your Pi4?
5. volume control? on/of switch of system each link manually? of course D10s turns on together with Pi4.

Sorry, for some ultra basic questions.

 

[mermayer]

1. Pi4 is 2gb version? I think for streaming 2gb should be more then enough, but some reserves as +2Gb can worth invest to make Pi4 more useful later down the road.

RPi4 with 2Gb is more as enough for audio streaming. I use the same configuration.

2. do you use original basic case and power supply? power supply could be important, because Pi4 powers also D10s.

I use a case with a 4 inch touch IPS (800x480) HDMI display and the original RPi power adapter for the RPi, the display and the USB DAC.

3. connection through rca to power amp? (D10s works as interface adapter and DAC in the same time)

Analogue connection to my second headphone amp for play the HIRES DSF files.

4. how do you use playback, only phones app as remote or you have screen for your Pi4?

Remote via web interface.

5. volume control? on/of switch of system each link manually? of course D10s turns on together with Pi4.

The DS10s turns on with the RPi, volume control is possible via web interface or touch screen, but i don't use it (volume control is disabled)

 

[Niles300z]

Raspberry Pi for having issues with any USB DAC getting static for sound with both shit Modi and smsl M2 seems like we haven't worked out the bugs yet I'm getting ready to try audio over HDMI and see if that works out any better for me without having to modify files and add code this is using both 32-bit bullseye full install and a couple others is it possible that a third party install like Kodi may offer additional drivers to make things any easier? The modi 2 bus powered with hub is not seen at all contrary to what I have read and the M2 is seen but just give static very frustrating I'm either going back to Windows or..

 

[somebodyelse]

Which Pi model, and what do you mean by 'static'? Pi models before the 4 have an issue with USB which can cause occasional pops and clicks a bit like on vinyl. Whether this happens at all, or how badly, depends on many things, including the software applications running. I could trigger it reliably by running BruteFIR, and fix it by pinning that BruteFIR process to a single CPU core. IIRC the bug report mentioned a database server as another that caused it. I have never had it with piCorePlayer.

 

[Niles300z]

Pi4 2gb model. The modi 2 dac was working but would have usb priority issues if I moved ports. Now its not seen at all. Even after reinstalling twice. Its powered by bus which is why I tried the hub. It could have crapped out I suppose so I tried the smsl dac. That was found but just has regular old fm type static.

 

[BR52]

I'm using 2 Pi4 with Roopiee XL, one with a Topping E70, one with SMSl C100 via USB, absolutely stable and perfect sound.

 

[somebodyelse]

Pi4 2gb model. The modi 2 dac was working but would have usb priority issues if I moved ports. Now its not seen at all. Even after reinstalling twice. Its powered by bus which is why I tried the hub. It could have crapped out I suppose so I tried the smsl dac. That was found but just has regular old fm type static.

That's not normal for a Pi 4, at least in my experience. I haven't been using it for audio recently, so it's possible an update has changed something. You could try something 'known good' like piCorePlayer where the defaults generally work once you pick the USB device for output. If that doesn't work I'd be suspicious of a hardware issue.

 

[s34get]

Hi, sorry to ask here in this thread - are there sonic advantages to use an USB DAC compared to stream the audio via PCM to an AVR? Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Hi, sorry to ask here in this thread - are there sonic advantages to use an USB DAC compared to stream the audio via PCM to an AVR? Thanks for your thoughts.

Provided the AVR is state of the art (eg the new Denons are plus some more) there is no sonic difference.

As a matter of fact, there might even be an advantage with the AVR as it also combines DSP (room correction) capability in one box, which next to the room, the speaker has by orders of magnitudes more positive effect on sound than all the electronics combined. (Sure you can also do room correction on the software eg Roon or Streamer side eg. Moode with Camilla DSP or Volumio).

Most AVRs like the Denons also have streaming capability so you save yourself the RPi or whatever you use as streamer.

 

[s34get]

Thanks for your extremly quick reply!

I'm using kodi on the pi with yatse. It is much better to browse a large library than marantz' build in local file browser . This little streamer is dedicated to music because that way it is much easier for me to separate the settings in the AVR (Marantz SR7013 currently) from watching movies and series with another device. I wasn't dissatisfied with the sound quality, I was just trying to assess if there are options to improve the chain. I got PCM working up to 192khz.