Opamp fakes vs real vs audiophile

[0bs3rv3r]

For TI and Onsemi NE5532, I pay around 50 cents for 10 pieces, and even under 25 cents for larger quantities from the official distributor.
Where do you think the profit margin is higher?

Those boards above were under $2 each.

 

[Roland68]

Those boards above were under $2 each.

If I buy 20 of these boards from AliExpress or Alibaba, I pay €0.61 each, including shipping.

I can hardly get a genuine AD828 for less than €10 individually, not even for larger quantities for less than €5, and even for large quantities directly from the manufacturer, the price is still over €4.
You don't actually believe that the Chinese are manufacturing these boards and losing at least €2-3 on each one, do you? With 99622 boards available...

If the parts were genuine, they would desolder the AD828s and sell them for significantly more, as is done with the OPA627, for example.

I just found brand new, original MUSES02 for €3.35 + €3.62 shipping on AliExpress.
They're definitely genuine and original....

 

[0bs3rv3r]

If I buy 20 of these boards from AliExpress or Alibaba, I pay €0.61 each, including shipping.

I can hardly get a genuine AD828 for less than €10 individually, not even for larger quantities for less than €5, and even for large quantities directly from the manufacturer, the price is still over €4.
You don't actually believe that the Chinese are manufacturing these boards and losing at least €2-3 on each one, do you? With 99622 boards available...

If the parts were genuine, they would desolder the AD828s and sell them for significantly more, as is done with the OPA627, for example.

I just found brand new, original MUSES02 for €3.35 + €3.62 shipping on AliExpress.
They're definitely genuine and original....

View attachment 494964

People keep misinterpreting the point. I am NOT saying they are genuine full price opamps. Either they are fake or are being dumped for some reason. What I AM saying, or asking, is - should we really care? If we believe that the difference between an audiophile opamp, and a 5532, is inaudible, then we should not complain, and enjoy the cheap device we get for under $2, that actually works well. If we were buying the opamp to use for video or some demanding application, then yes, we would not be happy, but we KNOW these are cheap - but still useful for audio.

 

[Heinrich]

In China, ...

What I meant is that I’ve seen a complete board available for under one buck, and it even works. Who would go through the trouble of designing the circuit, assembling it, and selling it when the profit—considering all the other components—must be very slim?

As I said, I had a similar case where I suspected a counterfeit, but it turned out to be misassembled in parts—basically scrap, but not necessarily with a fake op-amp.

In this case, it’s supposed to be a microphone amplifier—in at least two variants—but with a rather unsuitable, illogical op-amp, assuming it’s genuine. The whole thing is quite odd and could easily be tested with a high-frequency signal and an oscilloscope. For starters, maybe just measuring the noise and THD would be enough? Or speculate on and on for the fun of it.

 

[Heinrich]

People keep misinterpreting the point. I am NOT saying they are genuine full price opamps. Either they are fake or are being dumped for some reason. What I AM saying, or asking, is - should we really care? If we believe that the difference between an audiophile opamp, and a 5532, is inaudible, then we should not complain, and enjoy the cheap device we get for under $2, that actually works well. If we were buying the opamp to use for video or some demanding application, then yes, we would not be happy, but we KNOW these are cheap - but still useful for audio.

Simple, if it is not genuine, its properties are either measured and documented by a trustworthy person, or must be assumed to be arbitrary. In the latter case, your point is moot, while in the other case it depends on the information. Do you have information on this board in particular? I couldn't find any other than speculation instead of specification ;-)

 

[Sokel]

What I AM saying, or asking, is - should we really care?

Yes, you should, if you value the rest of your gear.
If however are of the same breed then yes, have a ball.

You'll be extremely lucky to get even the cheapest of a decent OPA just rebranded.
They are not, they are rejected broken ones, that's a whole other matter.

The pattern you saw measured can flip certain amps going bananas, and the funny thing is that they won't show it until they let some steam come out of them.

On the other hand it's your gear, your decision, etc, you can hope and pray that they are at least the lowest tier good ones (unlike though) .
Just don't try to convince others about it.

 

[0bs3rv3r]

You'll be extremely lucky to get even the cheapest of a decent OPA just rebranded.
They are not, they are rejected broken ones, that's a whole other matter.

Over the last month or two, I have bought various cheap boards from Aliexpress, with opamps in them, just to see what they are like. About 8 opamps in all. Four of them branded 5532, and four branded AD828. I also bought some OPA2134 from a local supplier known to sell cheap asian stuff. Every single one of them works, and works well. that's 10 out of 10 - so, maybe the odds are different to what you think

 

[Heinrich]

...Every single one of them works, and works well.

Can you show?

 

[Mnyb]

If I buy 20 of these boards from AliExpress or Alibaba, I pay €0.61 each, including shipping.

I can hardly get a genuine AD828 for less than €10 individually, not even for larger quantities for less than €5, and even for large quantities directly from the manufacturer, the price is still over €4.
You don't actually believe that the Chinese are manufacturing these boards and losing at least €2-3 on each one, do you? With 99622 boards available...

If the parts were genuine, they would desolder the AD828s and sell them for significantly more, as is done with the OPA627, for example.

I just found brand new, original MUSES02 for €3.35 + €3.62 shipping on AliExpress.
They're definitely genuine and original....

View attachment 494964

yes it's rampant see the warning on muse homepage .

 

[Mnyb]

And yes you should absolutely care one should not ever make business with counterfeit operations or other criminals .
You support a whole ecosystem that could not exist without marks to pander to .

You can not at the same time whine about criminals in the world and at the same time fall for every "sweat deal" out there many people i know have this cognitive dissonans ?

 

[0bs3rv3r]

Can you show?

What do you mean?

Not sure I like being doubted, but I posted pictures of the latest two above with AD828s soldered into them

Here's one with AD828 in adapters that I am currently using daily

I took those AD828s from this next one, (and it has simple 5532s in it for now

and here's yet another. It's actually got thsome 2134s in it (that I bought locally)

 

[Heinrich]

What do you mean?

The data, sorry

 

[Sokel]

What do you mean?

Not sure I like being doubted, but I posted pictures of the latest two above with AD828s soldered into them

Here's one with AD828 in adapters that I am currently using daily

View attachment 495050

I took those AD828s from this next one, (and it has simple 5532s in it for now

View attachment 495051

and here's yet another. It's actually got thsome 2134s in it (that I bought locally)

View attachment 495052

If only it would be about the looks...
I showed you data, that's the only way to convince us around here.

I did my homework, bought a bunch at Ali and the results are... (I assume you can read measurements) .
It's your turn to show actual data.

 

[Deleted member 88295]

Why would/could op-amps have 'a sound' ?

Btw, there was a undeniable "sound" difference. My 3e audio had a slight pop when turned off. That went completely away with the 2211. I am not sure if it was the op amp or the adapters I used have shorter traces.

--------------

I got these

do they make a difference? I'm not gonna tell

ps. this was my last message, it seems my behavior is inappropriate for this forum as communicated by mod. Take care all.

 

[solderdude]

My 3e audio had a slight pop when turned off. That went completely away with the 2211

Yep that is certainly possible. Such can be an issue when swapping op-amps.


The slight pop probably was not present using the stock opamp either ?
That would be a good reason to simply keep the stock op-amp in there.