Op-Amps as System Components: A Hypothesis About Why Both Sides May Be Reporting the Truth

[solderdude]

I do not think either group is lying, exaggerating, or attempting to deceive anyone.
My working assumption is that people are reporting their experiences truthfully.

I'm sure that is correct.

The issue is that people claiming to hear differences have no data to back up their 'findings' other than a 'trust me bro'.
Measurements usually do not lie if done correctly under similar conditions.
Also there may be differences in clipping behavior which generally is not measured but may be present during listening sessions.

My claim is deliberately limited:

An op-amp is a system component. Replacing it changes the physical system, but the resulting effect may range from undetectable, to measurably different, to audibly different, to improved, degraded, unstable, or completely non-functional. The result belongs to the op-amp–circuit–system interaction, not to the op-amp in isolation.

Undetectable (unmeasurable as in measurement limits ? or as in not audible ?
Measurable different... sure the many tests we have seen of op-amps shows this.
Audibly different ? depends on the circuit, gain, function, proper operation, noise levels, clipping behavior, current limiter behavior.
Improved ... improved measurements ? BW, distortion, noise ?
degraded ... noise, distortion (clipping), BW ?
unstable ... under which conditions ?

This has all been discussed many times here.

 

[NTTY]

Initial post looks to have been 90% written by an AI.

 

[pma]

Initial post looks to have been 90% written by an AI.

We may end at the situation when 2 AI engines would exchange their AI generated content .

 

[NTTY]

We may end at the situation when 2 AI engines would exchange their AI generated content .

Soon indeed

 

[davmol]

So assuming that the new member is still interested in running his own experiment for his own curiosity, then would he be better off recording the output of each amp and op-amp combo, then running them through a file based abx? I don't know how level matching and time aligning works in those applications but at least with recordings there is an output that can be discussed and challenged, should the person running the experiment get carried away with their findings.

I've tried op-amp swapping and level- matched AB DAC and amp comparisons, all for my own curiosity (spoiler: I didn't hear any differences). I might even do more level-matched AB testing in future, simply because I enjoyed the process. Given the recent DAC abx thread (Josh), I just think it's useful to advise people how to make their own home experiments a bit more rigorous, rather than telling them not to bother because they can't do things to a standard publishable in a peer review journal. In short: at least give people the chance to massively overstate their findings before going in hard on them

 

[mlloyd1]

Exactly my experience too.

I have fooled quite a few people with a 'tube amp' with only heaters glowing but a simple transistor circuit inside.
Just one person didn't like the sound but he later told me he hates tubes... made me smile.

Ha, ha - that was so cruel; I love it! Did you ever tell them? If so, do they still speak to you?

 

[solderdude]

I usually let people believe what they want to believe.
This provides a pleasant atmosphere in the present and future .

People really want/beg to be fooled but don't want to know nor be told they are.
That's like going to a magic show where afterwards the magician explains how it was done.
Especially true for audio where people like the mystery and magic.