Op-amp Rolling Using Sparkos on Fosi V3 Mono

[Cbdb2]

I can hear the message . I have hoped so much for a Sparkos SS3602 test and can´t thank you enough for doing it.
There is a publication with very slight measurement differences between various expensive OP amps in the FFT Spectrum.

The problem I have is: Maybe your FFT Spectrum for the sparkos is, if you look at the k2 distortion, 5-10 dB better than the Ti5532
But your print it as two overlaying graphs, placed on top of each other so you can´t see the true k2 distortion value of the Sparkos (I can´t see where the red k2 line ends!).
Would it be possible to print the two measurements separetly (just the FFT Spectrum),
so that we would have at least a tiny tiny tiny difference between these two op amps?
Maybe the corresponding graph is still in the memory of the AP555x?

Not that I would be able to hear these differences.

One last question: Why did you not do the usual SINAD Measurements for the two versions of the Fosi V3 Mono (5 Watt, FFT up to 20 kHz)?


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Ah, and here the publikation:

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How would the Sparkos SS3602 OP amp perform in this 20 kHz FFT measurements in comparison to Ti5532 (SINAD etc)?


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Without knowing what circuit ATM audio used to test these opamps there graphs are useless. The only advantage discrete OAs have is higher power output. Something thats unnecessary for audio applications. All you would have to do to make your discrete OA measure better is to increase the load in your test circuit till the IC OA starts to distort.
I tried to find this blog post at ATM (which are heavily into the snake oil) but couldnt find it, if anybody could provide a link I would appreciate it.

 

[Karmacoma]

I'm glad this topic's closed.
Or is it?

 

[boarbon]

Can you test with a door stop on top of the amp please?

 

[solderdude]

It didn't improve anything.

Other than the bank account balance from the seller and the manufacturer that is.

 

[surroundman]

Great work! This is how snake oil should be exposed!

 

[totti1965]

I tried to find this blog post at ATM (which are heavily into the snake oil) but couldnt find it, if anybody could provide a link I would appreciate it.

Can you translate ATM for me?
Are you thinking of this website: https://www.hificollective.co.uk/semiconductors/ss3601-sparkos-labs-single-discrete-op-amp.html ???

 

[restorer-john]

Without knowing what circuit ATM audio used to test these opamps there graphs are useless. The only advantage discrete OAs have is higher power output. Something thats unnecessary for audio applications. All you would have to do to make your discrete OA measure better is to increase the load in your test circuit till the IC OA starts to distort.
I tried to find this blog post at ATM (which are heavily into the snake oil) but couldnt find it, if anybody could provide a link I would appreciate it.

The 5532 can happily drive a 600R load and the same is likely true for the Sparkos, but audiophiles aren't looking for robust line drivers.

The entire "discrete opamp" business is an expensive solution in search of a problem. I blame Marantz in the mid 90s for starting this stupid trend with their FET input HDAM buffers.

1996. The step-up models got the HDAM after the NJM2114, whereas the cheaper model got a bypass jumper (10R resistor).

 

[Torphie]

Just a thought…but Amir may well be Schrödinger reincarnated as he once again opens the box to find a ‘late cat’

 

[tomtoo]

This opamp theme is boring.

 

[wwenze]

Without knowing what circuit ATM audio used to test these opamps there graphs are useless. The only advantage discrete OAs have is higher power output. Something thats unnecessary for audio applications. All you would have to do to make your discrete OA measure better is to increase the load in your test circuit till the IC OA starts to distort.
I tried to find this blog post at ATM (which are heavily into the snake oil) but couldnt find it, if anybody could provide a link I would appreciate it.

Headphone amps tho

But even then you can just slap some TO-220 as buffer

 

[Curupira]

This opamp theme is boring.

View attachment 441385

Yeah, I've never really understood the appeal. Sure, it's another thing to "upgrade" and obsess over. But take tubes for example, at least they have visual appeal, are a conversation starter and, in some cases, can have some (though subtle) effect in SQ when you consider OTL's OI and no-feedback system (no anti-NFC preaching here, just stating that going no-feedback yields more "artifacts").

 

[AdamG]

It didn't improve anything.

It can be argued that it did improve something….the bottom line of the OpAmp manufacturer. And that is the driving force in far too many Audio Product Companies. Selling dreams and wishes.

While ASR is conducting scientific tests and data analysis to prove their validity and effectiveness as advertised is not reproducible or verifiable. And that information is free for our readers and Members. Thank you Amir for maintaining this incredible site, conducting all the testing and publishing the results. And most importantly keeping this site Commercial Free. You could be making major bank and you chose to remain free of Endorsements and adverts. That makes you as rare as Unicorn Horn and Hens teeth. Thank you Sir.

 

[Jim Taylor]

And that is the driving force in far too many Audio Product Companies. Selling dreams and wishes.

I believe there is something more to it than that. Certain people have always had an inclination to "customize" their possessions ... making it uniquely their own. Whether the customization was actually an improvement or not is more or less beside the point to them.

 

[DWPress]

I've a mess of 12AX7, AU7, and AT7 tubes if anyone wants to roll the old fashioned way. Wait, we're talking solid state now aren't we? Some things just never go away....

 

[Short38]

is it Ned's Atomic Dustbin?

I’ll have to listen to their latest 78….

 

[Bel Canto]

Interesting, measurements are not affected so therefore the sound can't change. So all those people out there who "hear" differences must be wrong.

From memory the Topping E30 measured better than the Chord Dave DAC so it must sound better right? I can absolutely tell you that it does NOT sound better, not even close. I must be hearing things...

 

[Jimster480]

It didn't improve anything.

Your own charts show where it is slightly better in some regards. Even if this amount won't translate into something audible.
It just shows that SparkOs amps aren't junk like some of the other special Op Amps that have come out in the last years which actually ruined audio quality.

Fascinating test @amirm . I tried the Muses02 's that came with the kickstarter and put the NE5532's back in. Subjectively I did not actually prefer the NE5532's
I found it frustrating that Fosi were promoting this rolling.

I could never understand why they had two op amps in this part of the circuit. I don't suppose you can enlighten on this?

3e use one op amp per channel, as do many others. I'd love to understand the design rational behind two (apart from selling additional op amps).

I rolled away from NE5532 before and found no difference. I tried all the good Op Amps on the market and I Found no differences... they didn't sound different. Only when I put in a worse op Amp I could hear some garbling from the lower slew rate. The NE5532 was totally transparent in my testing, despite being so cheap and common and produced for a long time already.

 

[Jimster480]

Interesting, measurements are not affected so therefore the sound can't change. So all those people out there who "hear" differences must be wrong.

From memory the Topping E30 measured better than the Chord Dave DAC so it must sound better right? I can absolutely tell you that it does NOT sound better, not even close. I must be hearing things...

Chord Dave outputs a high voltage compared to the Topping E30. So if you plug both into the same Amp; you would have to massively turn down the volume after plugging in the Chord Dave. Otherwise it will "sound better" From it being louder and you being able to hear more details because the volume is higher.
This is a trick that many manufacturers have used to make their products "sound better" than other products which conform to "standards" like 2V UnBal and 4V Bal.

 

[amirm]

From memory the Topping E30 measured better than the Chord Dave DAC so it must sound better right? I can absolutely tell you that it does NOT sound better, not even close. I must be hearing things...

Your ears are fine. The problem is your eyes. You are not using them enough to learn how to do a proper listening comparison. Here is the thing you missed:

Dave is much louder due to 6.2 volt vs 4 volt output of Topping. Before you do any comparison you must match levels. And then do the testing blind. Ignore these two and you are manufacturing audio fantasies, not proper conclusions.

 

[Scrivs]

Interesting, measurements are not affected so therefore the sound can't change. So all those people out there who "hear" differences must be wrong.

From memory the Topping E30 measured better than the Chord Dave DAC so it must sound better right? I can absolutely tell you that it does NOT sound better, not even close. I must be hearing things...

What you are "hearing" is an invalid comparison. I'm going out on a limb here, but I strongly suspect that the output of each DAC weren't evenly matched using a DMM,

If so, your conclusions are invalid sir- as far as the scientific method will suggest.

I'm glad you like your Fisher-Price DAC though- oh boy, multicoloured LEDs. Oh boy!