Op-amp Rolling Using Sparkos on Fosi V3 Mono

[pkane]

Was watching a documentary and the scientists there said that some animals are avoiding us not out of fear but because they probably don't like us.
Nessie probably falls in this category (and for good reasons)

Just like opamp replacements don't like an APx555.

 

[Scrivs]

How unfortunate it is that a percentage of our population choose to be so willfully ignorent/lazy.

 

[totti1965]

Those graphs all talk to me. If someone can't hear their message, they have serious issues!

I can hear the message . I have hoped so much for a Sparkos SS3602 test and can´t thank you enough for doing it.
There is a publication with very slight measurement differences between various expensive OP amps in the FFT Spectrum.

The problem I have is: Maybe your FFT Spectrum for the sparkos is, if you look at the k2 distortion, 5-10 dB better than the Ti5532
But your print it as two overlaying graphs, placed on top of each other so you can´t see the true k2 distortion value of the Sparkos (I can´t see where the red k2 line ends!).
Would it be possible to print the two measurements separetly (just the FFT Spectrum),
so that we would have at least a tiny tiny tiny difference between these two op amps?
Maybe the corresponding graph is still in the memory of the AP555x?

Not that I would be able to hear these differences.

One last question: Why did you not do the usual SINAD Measurements for the two versions of the Fosi V3 Mono (5 Watt, FFT up to 20 kHz)?

Ah, and here the publikation:

How would the Sparkos SS3602 OP amp perform in this 20 kHz FFT measurements in comparison to Ti5532 (SINAD etc)?

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

So you're saying there's a chance . . .

 

[Scrivs]

Learn about what an Operational Amplifier is, how it works (hint:feedback), and then you may start to understand WHY there is no difference. The class D Output Stage will dominate those nanovolts of difference regarless.
It's beyond a moot point.

 

[Caliban]

I swapped all 4558 (or was it 4556..?) OP-amps for 5532s in a Kenwood stereo equalizer 30-35 years ago.
OP-amp rolling in an early stage.
Why ?, well it could be that my new CD-player had 5532s in it, and I thought it sounded great.
Well, the result was a bit of a disappointment, no change in "sound signature" and no change in noise level.
But I noticed that the output level became lower than before. That was the only difference.
I did not have the eq schematic (long before WWW), and I knew it was more or less a blind operation.
Never done any OP-amp rolling since then.
Possible oscillations and offset issues keeps me from experimenting.

 

[JSmith]

sterile garbaje

A bit like your post it seems.


JSmith

 

[T&T]

A bit like your post it seems.


JSmith

And vice-versa

 

[CedarX]

Noob question…

Some are reporting changes in the sound volume when rolling opamps. I was under the impression that the external components—what is not “rolled”—were defining the operating conditions/range of the opamp. Hence the no audible difference if these components are the same.

A change in volume is reasonably easy to hear. But is it also an indication that’s there could be other differences (some being audible) due to the way the opamp is used in the circuit?

 

[gwing]

Noob question…

Some are reporting changes in the sound volume when rolling opamps. I was under the impression that the external components—what is not “rolled”—were defining the operating conditions/range of the opamp. Hence the no audible difference if these components are the same.

A change in volume is reasonably easy to hear. But is it also an indication that’s there could be other differences (some being audible) due to the way the opamp is used in the circuit?

Probably fair to say that some are misreporting a change in volume when rolling opamps so it isn't an indication that there are other audible differences.

 

[antcollinet]

Some are reporting changes in the sound volume when rolling opamps. I was under the impression that the external components—what is not “rolled”—were defining the operating conditions/range of the opamp. Hence the no audible difference if these components are the same.

Correct - they are mistaken (unless the op amp swapped is actually not working in the application) . Just as they are when reporting changes in character of the sound.

 

[JSmith]

And vice-versa

Did you maybe mean ditto?

So let's have a look at your post history, in particular this thread and post;

Few days ago, I move the Sparkos labs to my DAC them I place 2 lme49860 on V3 excellent sound...but today I started with OPA627 dual, Muses 02, opa1656, opa2604, opa4458bm lm49860...Surprise the power hungry lm4562 sounds better a not so loved opamps, so 2 Sparkos Lab and 1 Muses02 to my Dac and lm4562 to Fosi v3 with 48v... amazing

Amazing... yet now sterile garbage. Quite a change of heart in under 2 years... seems many of your posts are waxing lyrical about opamps from what I can see.


JSmith

 

[JayGilb]

Amir, thanks for a great post !

 

[pkane]

Quite a change of heart in under 2 years... seems many of your posts are waxing lyrical about opamps from what I can see.

I did that and you might find severals you tubers recommendations

And we all know "several" youtubers are never wrong, even with no formal education, background or experience in science or engineering /s

 

[gwing]

Sparkos Fosi ZA3 (fixed link)

Haven't watched it yet though... what's the basic summary?


JSmith

Since you asked , my summary (although I might have conceivably missed other vital points when I skimmed through the video) would be:

"With standard opamps the ZA3 sounds fine when fed from cheap DACs but it does not reveal the magic from those magic DACs that provide more detail and resolution. When you replace the standard opamps with another one they want to sell the magic of the better DAC suddenly comes through so the ZA3 can be used in more expensive systems".

 

[Scrivs]

And vice-versa

Get a room you two

 

[AdrianusG]

"...Our knowledge of engineering, confirmed by measurements and science of psychoacoustics says there is no audible difference...."

Actually, no, that's not at all correct. Only statistics from careful blind listening tests can show that. There is NO WAY that electronic measurements alone can PROVE there are no audible differences. It's a very unscientific statement to say that you know the results of any regime of careful blind listening test before such tests are actually conducted. Smacks of hubris.

I suspect that careful listening tests such as I've described would show that in fact no one can hear differences. But that's just a GUESS and this is supposed to be Audio SCIENCE Review and there's no place for guessing in real science. So where are the blind listening tests? They should accompany the electronic tests to prove the thesis that the electronic tests show no audible differences exist. Without results from blind listening tests the whole premise collapses.

Emh, even when Amir would accompany his measurements with controlled blind listening test(s), in which HE could or could not hear any differences, it would still be his word for it, and it would still ONLY apply to his situation, his hearing (In)ability and so on,and therefore would mean absolutely nothing to me.

The measurements however do!

 

[BDWoody]

Emh, even when Amir would accompany his measurements with controlled blind listening test(s), in which HE could or could not hear any differences, it would still be his word for it, and it would still ONLY apply to his situation, his hearing (In)ability and so on,and therefore would mean absolutely nothing to me.

If he doesn't hear a difference, it just means his system is not resolving enough, or he has leaden ears. Wouldn't convince anyone of anything other than Amir can't hear what they can and do every day.

 

[Tres]

A believe doesn‘t need the truth.

(Sorry if someone said that before)

Thanks for this test and the explanation attached @amirm

Very usefull for someone who is no engineer but wants to learn.

 

[AdrianusG]

If he doesn't hear a difference, it just means his system is not resolving enough, or he has leaden ears. Wouldn't convince anyone of anything other than Amir can't hear what they can and do every day.

Exactly