• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Op Amp Replaced: Fosi V3 Monoblocks LM4562NA/NOPB $8x3

I've been burnt many times, purchasing products based on ASR reviews, only to find out that when used in real world with real speakers, things are not like they are presented in the review. That's why I sound jaded. People should know that amperes/current matter, damping factor too. Class A vs Class AB vs Class D, it simply does not sound the same, when used with real speakers and real music with all its peaks and interactions between speakers and amps.

An old 20W amp with proper transformer, an abundance of amperes, sounds MUCH better and controlled than a, let's say Topping LA90 discrete in bridged mode with all it's "100W" when used with *real* speakers and not fixed resistive load.
 
I've been burnt many times, purchasing products based on ASR reviews, only to find out that when used in real world with real speakers, things are not like they are presented in the review. That's why I sound jaded. People should know that amperes/current matter, damping factor too. Class A vs Class AB vs Class D, it simply does not sound the same, when used with real speakers and real music with all its peaks and interactions between speakers and amps.

An old 20W amp with proper transformer, an abundance of amperes, sounds MUCH better and controlled than a, let's say Topping LA90 discrete in bridged mode with all it's "100W" when used with *real* speakers and not fixed resistive load.
Which speakers?
 
I've been burnt many times, purchasing products based on ASR reviews, only to find out that when used in real world with real speakers, things are not like they are presented in the review. That's why I sound jaded. People should know that amperes/current matter, damping factor too. Class A vs Class AB vs Class D, it simply does not sound the same, when used with real speakers and real music with all its peaks and interactions between speakers and amps.

An old 20W amp with proper transformer, an abundance of amperes, sounds MUCH better and controlled than a, let's say Topping LA90 discrete in bridged mode with all it's "100W" when used with *real* speakers and not fixed resistive load.
You should definitely leave!
 
Which speakers?
JBL Studio 4410, Wharfedale Elysian 4, JBL Array 1400, JBL S312, JBL S38, Klipsch RB61, JBL S412P, JBL L100 (European/Denmark model)

To quote my sister "this does not sound that good" then, connecting Pioneer SA9800 and saying "ok, that's it, it's back!" :D
 
Last edited:
JBL Studio 4410, Wharfedale Elysian 4, JBL Array 1400, JBL S312, JBL S38, Klipsch RB1, JBL S412P, JBL L100 (European/Denmark model)

To quote my sister "this does not sound that good" then, connecting Pioneer SA9800 and saying "ok, that's it, it's back!" :D
Your sister is just as prone to perceptive biases as you are, and as everyone reading this forum is (as are all your "friends visiting you"). Including the bias that makes people hear what they know the people they love— or who they are with— or who is demonstrating to them—etc., etc.— want them to hear, or unconsciously signals to them that they should hear.

We are first and foremost social beings— our whole evolutionary existence, and hence our whole psychological make-up, is based on being people-pleasers. We are incredibly sensitive to unconsciously delivered cues.
 
I've been burnt many times, purchasing products based on ASR reviews, only to find out that when used in real world with real speakers, things are not like they are presented in the review. That's why I sound jaded. People should know that amperes/current matter, damping factor too. Class A vs Class AB vs Class D, it simply does not sound the same, when used with real speakers and real music with all its peaks and interactions between speakers and amps.

An old 20W amp with proper transformer, an abundance of amperes, sounds MUCH better and controlled than a, let's say Topping LA90 discrete in bridged mode with all it's "100W" when used with *real* speakers and not fixed resistive load.
If the amp delivers 20 W into 4 Ohms, that's a whopping 2.24 A. That's the opposite of "an abundance of amps", even if it delivers 50% more than that for short bursts. The LA90 discrete you mention delivers real, tested 320 W_RMS into 4 Ohms (= 8.94 A). It also does not care about reactive loads like real speakers, which was equally tested. Your ears are not a Wattmeter. It's trivial for amps with low power specs to wow people with high sensitivity or gain. Most people rarely go over 5 W of actual power while listening casually at home, even at elevated SPLs. Therefore, low power amps with high input sensitivity and/or gain get loud real fast when turning the volume pot, which impresses people who don't understand the equations behind.

Also, claiming that different amplifiers sounds different due to their class is nonsense and there is exactly zero evidence for this. Like with all the other stuff you say, "but I heard it!" is not evidence. You can repeat "doesn't sound the same" day in, day out - if there is zero proof of any of this, what is there to discuss in any meaningful way?
 
JBL Studio 4410, Wharfedale Elysian 4, JBL Array 1400, JBL S312, JBL S38, Klipsch RB1, JBL S412P, JBL L100 (European/Denmark model)

To quote my sister "this does not sound that good" then, connecting Pioneer SA9800 and saying "ok, that's it, it's back!" :D
Without any confirmation that any of the amps were still performing up to design (at a minimum) this is just than another anecdote with no proof. Did you measure each amp to ensure proper operation as in measuring it for gain, linearity, distortion, power response? Every channel? Under intended load? Were bias settings confirmed to be set per design? I say that because I'm using Kenwood KM-X1 6-channels amps manufactured from 1993-on in my main system. I can confirm, from my own measurements and setting bias myself according to the manufacturer's maintenance manual that any amp, especially old ones but even newer ones, very often have drift that does change the sound because the amp is not performing to specs. That drift could be thought to be "better" simply due to non-linearity accentuating a frequency range that gives the impression of "better".

As my own anecdote, I used a 2-way design of my own that I use with my Aragon 4004 II at times. I had recently purchased a Fosi V3 Mono to use in a distortion measurement rig and confirmed, through measurements, that it's performing close to spec, certainly well within audibility. As a test I substituted it into one channel of my 2-way setup, so one channel Fosi, the other Aragon 4004. Guess what? No discernable difference. That 4004 I purchased new in 1992. If my Aragon died, I would not replace it with a new Class AB amp of any make, I would buy one of any number of newer Class D amps covered in ASR. Is manufacturer quality and responsiveness important? You betcha, but that and functionality (pure amp, no built in preamp, no volume control, etc.) would be the deciding factors. And price of course, but that's another topic. No more Class AB amps for me, reality is that as long as the amp has the power capability for the intended usage (don't need 400W for my desktop system) and that it can handle the load (I have no 2-ohm minimum speakers), there's little chance of any audible difference.

But that is all anecdote. I can't prove any of it. Well, I can and actually have proven the Fosi amp response in another thread. That said, I also purchased another pair of V3 Monos some time later for desktop use. I measured the response of both in my distortion measurement rig. Both amps had serious distortion issues, so I returned them to Amazon. The linearity was actually fine, but the distortion was well off that of my first one. It might have been possible that I would have heard a difference in use, but when I saw measured distortion much worse, they went back. Had those been used in a "comparison" for sound it well might have been that they sounded "worse". Not due to design, but possibly due to quality controls, etc. That happens with other amps as well, Class AB or others. So it's necessary to be able to prove, at a minimum, that any component in a system is up to specs if you want to prove audibililty of anything. Speakers, too.

I guess it should go without saying that I measure everything now that I can. I've been surprised at some underperformance I've found as a result.

That's a minium to start. I can also say that I would never accept my wife's impression of something being "better". Different, possibly (or not in actuality). Proof of any inferiority or superiority? No chance.

Edit: Also had to replace all the relays. They (KM-X1) failed or were failing with questionable contact condition. Just another possible issue in an amp.
 
Last edited:
If the amp delivers 20 W into 4 Ohms, that's a whopping 2.24 A. That's the opposite of "an abundance of amps", even if it delivers 50% more than that for short bursts. The LA90 discrete you mention delivers real, tested 320 W_RMS into 4 Ohms (= 8.94 A). It also does not care about reactive loads like real speakers, which was equally tested. Your ears are not a Wattmeter. It's trivial for amps with low power specs to wow people with high sensitivity or gain. Most people rarely go over 5 W of actual power while listening casually at home, even at elevated SPLs. Therefore, low power amps with high input sensitivity and/or gain get loud real fast when turning the volume pot, which impresses people who don't understand the equations behind.

Also, claiming that different amplifier sounds different due to its class is nonsense and there is exactly zero evidence for this claim. Like with all the other stuff you say, "but I heard it!" is not evidence. You can repeat "doesn't sound the same" day in, day out - if there is zero proof of any of this, what is there to discuss in any meaningful way?
But he said 'trust me bro'!
He really did.
4 amperes amplifiers are as good as real amplifiers, trust me bro, look at the SINAD and frequency response, they are all the same. lol
So it must be real.
 
If the amp delivers 20 W into 4 Ohms, that's a whopping 2.24 A. That's the opposite of "an abundance of amps", even if it delivers 50% more than that for short bursts. The LA90 discrete you mention delivers real, tested 320 W_RMS into 4 Ohms (= 8.94 A). It also does not care about reactive loads like real speakers, which was equally tested. Your ears are not a Wattmeter. It's trivial for amps with low power specs to wow people with high sensitivity or gain. Most people rarely go over 5 W of actual power while listening casually at home, even at elevated SPLs. Therefore, low power amps with high input sensitivity and/or gain get loud real fast when turning the volume pot, which impresses people who don't understand the equations behind.

Also, claiming that different amplifiers sounds different due to their class is nonsense and there is exactly zero evidence for this. Like with all the other stuff you say, "but I heard it!" is not evidence. You can repeat "doesn't sound the same" day in, day out - if there is zero proof of any of this, what is there to discuss in any meaningful way?

My friend, peaks should be well above 9A. No one is talking about the gain structure of a volume pot.

Amp | Rail Voltage | Dynamic Headroom | Burst Power (4Ω) | Peak Current | Behavior
------------------------|-------------|------------------|------------------|--------------|------------------------------
Yamaha P5000S | ~±75–80V | ~2 dB | ~1000–1300 W | ~25–26 A | Brutal, high reserve, pro amp
Yamaha P3500S | ~±65–70V | ~2 dB | ~800–1000 W | ~20–22 A | Strong, slightly less than P5000
Pioneer SA-9800 | ~±60V | ~2–3 dB | ~200–250 W | ~9–10 A | Punchy, loose, “big” sound
NAD C370 | ~±55–60V | ~1.5–2 dB | ~300 W | ~11–12 A | Controlled, slightly compressed
Topping LA90 Discrete | ~±32V (64V) | ~0–1 dB | ~140–160 W TOTAL | ~6–7 A | Clean, PSU-limited, hard ceiling

Power supply behavior (instant vs sustained)

  • Pioneer SA-9800:
    • large transformer + caps
    • can dump energy instantly
  • NAD C370:
    • “high current”, but regulated/limited
    • less “slam” feel
  • LA90:
    • switching PSU → hard ceiling
Same RMS amps ≠ same transient amps

Voltage swing (often ignored)

Power = Voltage × Current
  • SA-9800:
    • higher rail voltage for its class
    • better voltage swing into real loads
  • LA90:
    • constrained by 64V PSU
  • NAD:
    • moderate rails
More swing → more real acoustic impact

What this actually shows (no BS)​

Yamaha P5000S / P3500S​

  • Massive rails + PSU
  • Can double power on peaks
  • Real-world:

    kick drum = full impact, no compression

Pioneer SA-9800​

  • Lower current than NAD on paper
  • BUT:
    • more headroom (often >2 dB)
    • less protection
    • more voltage swing freedom
That’s why:

it sounds stronger than NAD despite lower spec current

NAD C370​

  • “High current” but:
    • protection circuits engage
    • soft clipping earlier
  • behaves like:

    controlled, slightly compressed under stress

Topping LA90 Discrete​

  • Hard limit:
    • 64V × ~4A PSU = ~250W TOTAL
  • stereo:
    • ~120W/ch → already near limit
  • no capacitor reserve
Result:

hits ceiling early → feels weak dynamically
 
Last edited:
Writing down what a simple graph of measurement shows easily.
 
Honestly, why ChatGPT us with bullshit? What even is "more swing" or "less protection"? Come on, man you can't be serious. This isn't audioinventnewwordsreview.

You brought up 20 W amps, not us. Nobody disputes that amps with higher peak voltage and peak amps can play louder, as long as your speaker survives it. All of the speakers you listed top out at or below 300 W RMS, most below 200 W - the RB1 is a speaker stand so that is technically 0 W, I guess. What are we even discussing here?
 
Even at 10W average, real music demands currents that expose PSU limits — that’s why amps still sound very different at “moderate” volume.

Kick drum is +10 dB or more.

Amps need to deliver:
Music peak above average | Peak power needed
-------------------------|------------------
+6 dB | 40 W
+10 dB | 100 W
+12 dB | 158 W
+15 dB | 316 W
+20 dB | 1000 W

Typical peak levels in music:

Signal type | Peak above average
-----------------------------|-------------------
Compressed pop (modern) | +6 to +10 dB
Rock / normal mixes | +10 to +15 dB
Jazz / acoustic | +15 to +20 dB
Orchestral | +20 dB+
Kick drum transient | +10 to +20 dB (very common)

Let's say you are using 10w on average... quickly you will find out what kind of amplifier you are using.

At 10W average:

+10 dB kick → 100W peak
+15 dB kick → 316W peak
+20 dB kick → 1000W peak

That’s why:
  • small amps compress
  • big amps feel “alive”
  • and they all specify 100W
 
My friend, peaks should be well above 9A. No one is talking about the gain structure of a volume pot.

Amp | Rail Voltage | Dynamic Headroom | Burst Power (4Ω) | Peak Current | Behavior
------------------------|-------------|------------------|------------------|--------------|------------------------------
Yamaha P5000S | ~±75–80V | ~2 dB | ~1000–1300 W | ~25–26 A | Brutal, high reserve, pro amp
Yamaha P3500S | ~±65–70V | ~2 dB | ~800–1000 W | ~20–22 A | Strong, slightly less than P5000
Pioneer SA-9800 | ~±60V | ~2–3 dB | ~200–250 W | ~9–10 A | Punchy, loose, “big” sound
NAD C370 | ~±55–60V | ~1.5–2 dB | ~300 W | ~11–12 A | Controlled, slightly compressed
Topping LA90 Discrete | ~±32V (64V) | ~0–1 dB | ~140–160 W TOTAL | ~6–7 A | Clean, PSU-limited, hard ceiling

Power supply behavior (instant vs sustained)

  • Pioneer SA-9800:
    • large transformer + caps
    • can dump energy instantly
  • NAD C370:
    • “high current”, but regulated/limited
    • less “slam” feel
  • LA90:
    • switching PSU → hard ceiling
Same RMS amps ≠ same transient amps

Voltage swing (often ignored)

Power = Voltage × Current
  • SA-9800:
    • higher rail voltage for its class
    • better voltage swing into real loads
  • LA90:
    • constrained by 64V PSU
  • NAD:
    • moderate rails
More swing → more real acoustic impact

What this actually shows (no BS)​

Yamaha P5000S / P3500S​

  • Massive rails + PSU
  • Can double power on peaks
  • Real-world:

Pioneer SA-9800​

  • Lower current than NAD on paper
  • BUT:
    • more headroom (often >2 dB)
    • less protection
    • more voltage swing freedom
That’s why:


NAD C370​

  • “High current” but:
    • protection circuits engage
    • soft clipping earlier
  • behaves like:

Topping LA90 Discrete​

  • Hard limit:
    • 64V × ~4A PSU = ~250W TOTAL
  • stereo:
    • ~120W/ch → already near limit
  • no capacitor reserve
Result:
Why don't you take the AI hallucinated BS (in spite of its claim that it is "No BS":facepalm:) elsewhere - or at the very least comply with the policy on use of AI.
 
Back
Top Bottom