Oops! Not fatigued by B&W speakers

[RexrothPigeon]

So, are you saying all tweeters are the same? Just saying that I think there’s more to them than just marketing.

If they measure the same, they’re the same. There may be differences in durability, cost, and looks.

And there’s good research. So unless you have similarly rigorous test data showing otherwise, you’re just doing a subjectivism.

After extensive measurements under quite rigorous conditions, they concluded that: "When eliminating frequency and phase response irregularities, baffle and room interaction, non-linear behavior, and distance effects, a blind-comparison listening test could not reveal audible differences between different types of tweeters. Neither the material nor the actuator principle, neither the tweeters geometry nor the specific form of wave fronts in the far field could be shown to be distinctive features of different tweeter types."

 

[Sigberg Audio]

If they measure the same, they’re the same. There may be differences in durability, cost, and looks.

And there’s good research. So unless you have similarly rigorous test data showing otherwise, you’re just doing a subjectivism.

Just to be precise, that we can't hear inherent characteristics of different tweeter materials, doesn't mean there's no point in any of the different materials and that all materials are equally good.

If one by using a certain material can achieve a better tweeter (more even response, lower distortion, moving break-up modes far away from the audible band, etc), then that's of course a worthy pursuit.

Also, "if they measure the same, they sound the same" is a slight red herring, as no two tweeters measure the same (not even two different units of the same tweeter model).

 

[Oink-Oinko]

As far as I know they are artificial diamonds, and the fabrication consists of a high pressure vapor chamber where the atomic particles sublimate onto a tweeter shaped mold. Lol pretty gnarly stuff

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Just to be precise, that we can't hear inherent characteristics of different tweeter materials, doesn't mean there's no point in any of the different materials and that all materials are equally good.

good thing I wasn't making that point and was instead making the point that, as you say, "we can't hear inherent characteristics of different tweeter materials."

 

[Imakeller]

good thing I wasn't making that point and was instead making the point that, as you say, "we can't hear inherent characteristics of different tweeter materials."

But we can measure them, right? Yet you dismiss the excellent tweeter in question as just “great for mystifying unwitting consumers”?

 

[Mort]

But we can measure them, right? Yet you dismiss the excellent tweeter in question as just “great for mystifying unwitting consumers”?

There is general skepticism about exotic driver components and b&w for good reason. This is a general discussion, not a peer reviewed research paper.

Nonetheless you are tautologically correct that proper measurement is necessary to be definitively certain.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

But we can measure them, right? Yet you dismiss the excellent tweeter in question as just “great for mystifying unwitting consumers”?

If B&W would provide measurements, we could discuss that. Until then, there is plenty of reason to consider B&W to be uninterested in the kind of speaker performance ASR is capable of identifying. Anyway, I don't dismiss the tweeter--it might be great!--but I see no reason other than blind faith to believe it is great because of its exotic materials, and there are plenty of speakers that measure better than most contemporary B&Ws that do not use such expensive materials for their tweeters.
So yes, I could be wrong, but I'm probably not.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

I have nothing but anecdotal evidence, but based on information from people I know to have high competency in driver design in the industry, the 800-series drivers (both tweeters and the rest of them) are of high quality. I'm however pretty confident that was the case when they used aluminum domes as well.

 

[BVK]

I currently know dozens of professional musicians who work in major city orchestras and my experience tracks with Dialectic's. They rarely attend live orchestral performances.

I'll throw in an another anecdotal post. Most classical musicians spend quite a bit of time sitting in the audience, listening. Almost every rehearsal has parts where they won't be playing, during which many of them pick a comfortable seat in the audience. A lot of them also attend other concerts as audience members.

Source: I work with a professional classical orchestra, and I'm there at the rehearsals and the concerts so I witness it happen with my very own pair of eyes on a weekly basis