Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)

[Pixelwarfare]

Which Dirac target curves y'all use to boost the bass a bit? It seems I lost a lot of bass with stereo music after Dirac tuning;

 

[Rottmannash]

Which Dirac target curves y'all use to boost the bass a bit? It seems I lost a lot of bass with stereo music after Dirac tuning;

Most are using +6 dB Harman or +8 dB Harman curves I believe. There's a bit more discussion about DL and the RZ50 on AVS Forum.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/2021-onkyo-tx-rz50-owners-thread-nr7100-owners-welcome.3227263/

 

[BJL]

Which Dirac target curves y'all use to boost the bass a bit? It seems I lost a lot of bass with stereo music after Dirac tuning;

Dirac desktop app version 3.3 and better, (current version is 3.4.4), generates target curves particular to each speaker group (which in your case would be the stereo channels) customized to your system. If you find the bass lacking, you can manually tweak the generated curves. In my opinion, tweaking the auto-generated curves would be preferable to using prepared curves, although this is entirely a personal matter (I once tried the Harmon curves and didn't find them to be particularly better, and in some ways worse). You can save the project under a new name, experiment with it, without losing the original curves, fine tuning to get your preferred degree of bass.

The Pioneer (& I assume other Onkyo variations) have three slots for Dirac, easy to load one with the Harmon curve, one with the unmodified Dirac, and one with your fine tuned version and compare. I tried this and invariably went back to Dirac's curve.

 

[crazyunclejeff]

Forgive me if I'm late to the party but I just joined this forum. I've been a long time member of AV science but this topic is active. Much more so on this forum and I'm interested.
Let me start by saying thank you in advance and that I've read all 37 pages of posts. Unfortunately I'm only really smart about doctor stuff. So if you've been shot, I know what to do and I do follow directions pretty well, but I don't understand the geek level discussion that many of you are much more capable of.

I just had an emotiva go bad on me. I'm looking to replace it with either the Denon 3800 or this Onkyo.

For background, I have a room that is very close to ideal dimensions and I have exceptional acoustic treatments all around. I've been very happy with the way the emotiva sounded but I don't want to spend that much money again. I'm getting old and am retired. I currently have seven channels, all Atlantic technology 450 series speakers that are several years old but still sound good. Two M+K subs that are symmetrically placed calculated by room dimension recommendations. All channels are powered by separate power amplifiers with at least 200 watts RMS.

I have Dirac with my emotiva and I don't know if the license is transferable to the Denon. If that's the case, it would make the Denon decision a no-brainer. I have a feeling it's not transferable because it's probably 8 years old.

I also don't have Atmos but would consider putting two ceiling speakers and either purchasing another two-channel amp, a cheap one, to power them: or if you recommend could I use two of the channels on either the Onkyo or Denon receivers to power those two speakers only. I don't know how much of a big deal atmos makes. Again, I'm quite happy with the way the sound is right now. But if I'm getting ready to change processors I may as well look into that.

I like the pricing on the Onkyo, the fact that their Dirac correction only does mono subs I don't think would be a problem because my subs are symmetrically located in a mathematically good place, so if they were corrected in mono I think that would be fine. I don't know if that's the best way to go or use the dentin receiver with their on board audyssey processing. Just for reference, I would never listen to music by itself. In this room I only watch movies but obviously the sound and music and movies is important. I would never care about the stereo.

I can still find the Onkyo for 1,350 open box on crutchfield or other sites with new warranty. But I would be willing to spend the extra three or $400 for the Denon, If the Audyssey was good enough. I could not afford the extra cost for a new Dirac processing fee and microphone.

If I did atmos, Iwould probably have to use in ceiling speakers and again would not want to spend that much money. Thinking of Polk RC80i. Part of that would depend on whether I could use the internal amplifiers for those two speakers on either one of the processors.

So basically the questions are:
Is atmos worth it? And can I use the internal amps to power a couple of Polk ceiling speakers?

Is the Denon room correction Audyssey program good enough for my needs if I can't afford Dirac correction

Or is the Onkyo with on-board Dirac correction good enough and a better choice for my situation whether or not I use atmos eventually.

It would actually still be cheaper to buy a separate power amp for the atmos speakers and use the Onkyo than it would be to buy the denon , and that's before I even add in the cost of the Dirac license and mike for the Denon.

I've owned both Onkyo and Denon products before in cheaper versions for my upstairs television and I like them both. But I would dearly love to be able to have the more affordable Onkyo be good enough for my needs.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[GabrielPhoto]

Forgive me if I'm late to the party but I just joined this forum. I've been a long time member of AV science but this topic is active. Much more so on this forum and I'm interested.
Let me start by saying thank you in advance and that I've read all 37 pages of posts. Unfortunately I'm only really smart about doctor stuff. So if you've been shot, I know what to do and I do follow directions pretty well, but I don't understand the geek level discussion that many of you are much more capable of.

I just had an emotiva go bad on me. I'm looking to replace it with either the Denon 3800 or this Onkyo.

For background, I have a room that is very close to ideal dimensions and I have exceptional acoustic treatments all around. I've been very happy with the way the emotiva sounded but I don't want to spend that much money again. I'm getting old and am retired. I currently have seven channels, all Atlantic technology 450 series speakers that are several years old but still sound good. Two M+K subs that are symmetrically placed calculated by room dimension recommendations. All channels are powered by separate power amplifiers with at least 200 watts RMS.

I have Dirac with my emotiva and I don't know if the license is transferable to the Denon. If that's the case, it would make the Denon decision a no-brainer. I have a feeling it's not transferable because it's probably 8 years old.

I also don't have Atmos but would consider putting two ceiling speakers and either purchasing another two-channel amp, a cheap one, to power them: or if you recommend could I use two of the channels on either the Onkyo or Denon receivers to power those two speakers only. I don't know how much of a big deal atmos makes. Again, I'm quite happy with the way the sound is right now. But if I'm getting ready to change processors I may as well look into that.

I like the pricing on the Onkyo, the fact that their Dirac correction only does mono subs I don't think would be a problem because my subs are symmetrically located in a mathematically good place, so if they were corrected in mono I think that would be fine. I don't know if that's the best way to go or use the dentin receiver with their on board audyssey processing. Just for reference, I would never listen to music by itself. In this room I only watch movies but obviously the sound and music and movies is important. I would never care about the stereo.

I can still find the Onkyo for 1,350 open box on crutchfield or other sites with new warranty. But I would be willing to spend the extra three or $400 for the Denon, If the Audyssey was good enough. I could not afford the extra cost for a new Dirac processing fee and microphone.

If I did atmos, Iwould probably have to use in ceiling speakers and again would not want to spend that much money. Thinking of Polk RC80i. Part of that would depend on whether I could use the internal amplifiers for those two speakers on either one of the processors.

So basically the questions are:
Is atmos worth it? And can I use the internal amps to power a couple of Polk ceiling speakers?

Is the Denon room correction Audyssey program good enough for my needs if I can't afford Dirac correction

Or is the Onkyo with on-board Dirac correction good enough and a better choice for my situation whether or not I use atmos eventually.

It would actually still be cheaper to buy a separate power amp for the atmos speakers and use the Onkyo than it would be to buy the denon , and that's before I even add in the cost of the Dirac license and mike for the Denon.

I've owned both Onkyo and Denon products before in cheaper versions for my upstairs television and I like them both. But I would dearly love to be able to have the more affordable Onkyo be good enough for my needs.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Ok I was a Denon and Audyssey fanboy for many years. I was upgrading to the 4700, 3800h or 4800h but while testing the 3800h, decided to grab the RZ50 curious about Dirac.
One run of DIRAC and I was sold. Returned the 3800h after that.
Dirac is not the hype I thought it was..its the real deal and easily gave me better results than XT32 even with the Android app.
Dirac is part of the Onkyo as well so you dont have to pay $350 next year to get it like with the 3800h. I grabbed the 3800h mainly for the 4 subs and Dirac in the future but the 4 subs calibration was just subpar. The MiniDSP is WAY better which I added aftwards.

 

[crazyunclejeff]

Thanks for the prompt response. I just got off the phone with a very nice gentleman from technical support for Onkyo. I think that Onkyo is the way to go for me and I don't think I'm even going to worry about the atmos part for now. The technician went over their Dirac and it seemed like even the basic deer act gave good results and would be applicable for mine. I think I'm going to do like you did and just grab the RZ50

 

[GabrielPhoto]

Thanks for the prompt response. I just got off the phone with a very nice gentleman from technical support for Onkyo. I think that Onkyo is the way to go for me and I don't think I'm even going to worry about the atmos part for now. The technician went over their Dirac and it seemed like even the basic deer act gave good results and would be applicable for mine. I think I'm going to do like you did and just grab the RZ50

Good luck. My dealer got me pretty much the same price for the 3800h and RZ50 so price was not a consideration, just the performance of the Onkyo and Dirac just took me by surprise. I even like its looks And it runs cooler so i dont even need the AC Infinity I had before

 

[buz]

If you have external power amps the better DACs in the onkyo seem like a no brainer to me.

FWIW, I find the internal amps in my Pioneer (thought to be the same exact hardware as the onkyo) decent enough even for my Kef R3 / R2c LCR...

 

[BJL]

I think that Onkyo is the way to go for me and I don't think I'm even going to worry about the atmos part for now.

I like height speakers a lot (I have four), not just for Atmos, but also using the dts Neural:X processing (or Dolby if you prefer) to expand both stereo and 5.1 audio for music. The internal amps on my Pioneer (more or less the same as the Onkyo I gather) work just fine. If you are using surround back, then it is necessary to use an external amp for Height2 (if only one pair of height speakers not necessary). I haven't tried upmixing film, but I've read that also works well with both dts and Dolby. Dirac is very effective to get the height speaker levels matched properly to the main system.

 

[crazyunclejeff]

Quick question about preamp out voltage. I am deciding between the Onkyo and the Denon 3800H.

The preamp out voltage on the Denon 3800 is 4V, the Onkyo is 1V (I spoke again with Onkyo). Audioholics review was saying that was a good thing in the Denon as it provides more input voltage to the amps, effectively it would play louder for a given amp (note they were not comparing to any other processor, just reviewing the Denon).

I will not be using the internal amps at all.

Have those of you who use the RZ50 as a preamp with external amps found plenty of volume with movies?

I have a tendency to worry about things that are a non issue, and the Onkyo is WAY cheaper than the Denon (found an onkyo new for $1400, Denon is $1700, plus figure another $200 at least for Dirac upgrade...I have a mike)

I dont really care about this number as much as I care that I can crank up a movie as loud as I like without clipping the amps.

Any words of wisdom?

 

[crazyunclejeff]

Gabiel...We have the same projector it seems.

What was the best price you found for the 3800 and where (if you dont mind)?

 

[dlaloum]

Quick question about preamp out voltage. I am deciding between the Onkyo and the Denon 3800H.

The preamp out voltage on the Denon 3800 is 4V, the Onkyo is 1V (I spoke again with Onkyo). Audioholics review was saying that was a good thing in the Denon as it provides more input voltage to the amps, effectively it would play louder for a given amp (note they were not comparing to any other processor, just reviewing the Denon).

I will not be using the internal amps at all.

Have those of you who use the RZ50 as a preamp with external amps found plenty of volume with movies?

I have a tendency to worry about things that are a non issue, and the Onkyo is WAY cheaper than the Denon (found an onkyo new for $1400, Denon is $1700, plus figure another $200 at least for Dirac upgrade...I have a mike)

I dont really care about this number as much as I care that I can crank up a movie as loud as I like without clipping the amps.

Any words of wisdom?

Yes, I specifically asked Onkyo and was told 2V by the tech there - but...

It was tested here on ASR by Amirm:

Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Onkyo TX-RZ50 9.2 8K THX Certified AV Receiver. It was purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me for testing. It costs US $1,399. Looks like all AVR companies are trying to break the mold of just dual rotary controls to something...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Refer to the first page of this thread!

The output is good out to 3.6V, and peak performance is at 2V

Personally I run it with external amps that require 1.4V for max rated output and it does an excellent job

Although the Denon can do 4V - that is only when it is NOT using any of the internal amps, (ie: preamp mode only) - if like me, you mix and match - run surrounds/heights off the internal amps, and front L/C/R externally, then the Denon's are much more voltage constrained - whereas the Onkyo does not suffer from this issue.

 

[crazyunclejeff]

I had thought about using the internal amps but I don't think I'm going to need it. I think I'm just going to stick with my seven channels. The Onkyo representative actually said that they automatically include something that's similar to Atmos that gives more of a height to the sound. But I'm glad you're getting plenty of power out of the processor to your amps.

I appreciate all of your advice everybody

 

[Rottmannash]

I only use the internal amps for the Atmos speakers and use Purifi amps for the L/C/R and a Buckeye NC252MP 2 ch amp for the rear surrounds-sounds great and at 0 dB on the volume is almost painful-I have turned it up to +3 dB a couple times to see if it sounded distorted but did not detect such. I was also worried about the low gain on the Purifi and 252 amps but it's not a problem, and as an aside the AVR only boosts the L/R 2.5 dB and the center 2 dB-I was worried the AVR would over boost the outboard channels but not so.

 

[symphara]

I have a tendency to worry about things that are a non issue, and the Onkyo is WAY cheaper than the Denon (found an onkyo new for $1400, Denon is $1700, plus figure another $200 at least for Dirac upgrade...I have a mike)

Here in Switzerland the difference is starker, the Onkyo is 1050 (vs 1800 for the Denon). The equivalent Pioneer is even cheaper, like 950. I'm tempted to buy one just in case, I have an old Marantz in a different location and it might kick the bucket at some point. I'd only be using the internal amps for Atmos speakers anyway.

 

[ivo.f.doma]

Pioneer 505 for 950 CHF, or €? It is also worth traveling .

 

[buz]

Here in Switzerland the difference is starker, the Onkyo is 1050 (vs 1800 for the Denon). The equivalent Pioneer is even cheaper, like 950. I'm tempted to buy one just in case, I have an old Marantz in a different location and it might kick the bucket at some point. I'd only be using the internal amps for Atmos speakers anyway.

Got the Pioneer for 900 driving Kef R3 and R2c, like it so far. Todo for the weekend is to finally do Dirac.

 

[I D C S]

Could someone kindly confirm the what amplifier class is the Onkyo TX RZ50? Class AB or Class D.

I just bought RZ50 which replaces my 20 year old Yamaha RXV 1000. The Subwoofer (REL Q200) is connected high level cable (with the main speakers). If the connection is not as per the Class of Amp the subwoofer may be damaged!

I also reached out to the 'Premium Audio Company ' by no response so far!
TIA

 

[symphara]

Could someone kindly confirm the what amplifier class is the Onkyo TX RZ50? Class AB or Class D.

I just bought RZ50 which replaces my 20 year old Yamaha RXV 1000. The Subwoofer (REL Q200) is connected high level cable (with the main speakers). If the connection is not as per the Class of Amp the subwoofer may be damaged!

I also reached out to the 'Premium Audio Company ' by no response so far!
TIA

AB

 

[I D C S]

Thanks @symphara.

Where can I get the latest Firmware for RZ 50, my firmware number is R116-0408-0040-0031.
Online checking fails "Unable to check Updates"
TIA