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Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)
- Thread starter amirm
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Really? You can't use Dirac and also have an established crossover freq? I haven't received my RZ50 yet, but was planning on using 80hz for everything..
After you run Dirac, the AVR will have crossovers assigned through the standard interface. You can change them to an established crossover.
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Check out this thread i literally just started a few days ago.
It was about the sister avr to the Rz50. I have the Integra Drx 3.4
There is a link in this thread that talks about how 2 people contacted onkyo customer support about preout voltage. 1 person was told the pre outs voltage is 1V another person was told its 2V.
I am unsure what to believe because I do believe the rz50 and drx3.4 share the same power supply. I am trying to power a NC502MP D class amp
Hypex NC502MP NCore Amplifier 500Wx4 compatability with AVR
I am curious if my AVR preouts have enough amps/voltage to power my future amp. my AVR is the : Integra DRX 3.4 My amp would be the : VTV AMPLIFIER Four Channel Hypex NC502MP NCore Amplifier 500Wx4 Also, could I use this cable to connect my AVR and Amp ??
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Hey so question. In order for us to reach that full 3.5/4 volts.
We would need to turn up the volume control on the AVR ? All the way up i would presume
@voodooless @Grierts thank you both!
I used to have a Denon 3500 for a 5.1 set up. Since my front 3 are from SVS Ultra (not efficient), the general sound quality was mediocre.
I recently started to upgrade the components and in the meantime, I only use a 2.1 set up with an integrated amp (cxa81). I can hear a massive improvement just for 2 Channels. Having enough power is key and hopefully the external amp can overcome the limitations of Rz50 ..
I used to have a Denon 3500 for a 5.1 set up. Since my front 3 are from SVS Ultra (not efficient), the general sound quality was mediocre.
I recently started to upgrade the components and in the meantime, I only use a 2.1 set up with an integrated amp (cxa81). I can hear a massive improvement just for 2 Channels. Having enough power is key and hopefully the external amp can overcome the limitations of Rz50 ..
I contacted Onkyo support before AmirM tested the RZ50 here, and was told that the "design" peak V was 2V... which means an RMS of 1.4V or the standard "pro" level...Check out this thread i literally just started a few days ago.
It was about the sister avr to the Rz50. I have the Integra Drx 3.4
There is a link in this thread that talks about how 2 people contacted onkyo customer support about preout voltage. 1 person was told the pre outs voltage is 1V another person was told its 2V.
I am unsure what to believe because I do believe the rz50 and drx3.4 share the same power supply. I am trying to power a NC502MP D class amp
Hypex NC502MP NCore Amplifier 500Wx4 compatability with AVR
I am curious if my AVR preouts have enough amps/voltage to power my future amp. my AVR is the : Integra DRX 3.4 My amp would be the : VTV AMPLIFIER Four Channel Hypex NC502MP NCore Amplifier 500Wx4 Also, could I use this cable to connect my AVR and Amp ??
What we actually know from the tests here, is that it has substantially more headroom than that! Yes, apparently the tech's were being conservative, what do you want to bet, that they had never tested it to see what it could actually do!?
When it comes to questions such as those on the pre out level, it would typically be too technical for first line support people to answer correctly. One would have to make a special request for their so called level 2 support if a more credible answer is expected. Or buy the service manual, though you will probably never be able to buy one for Anthem products.
Based on the ASR measurements - it well may be that 2V was design V RMS output... as the 3 and a bit volt would seem to reflect some headroom on top of a 2Vrms - which should be 2.8V peak... and the 3 and a bit V before clipping is then headroom...
Yeah would have been nice to talk to L2 or L3 engineers... but there is no obvious way of getting access to those!
Just realised - AmirM measure 3.5V RMS... so really the tech that responded had no idea!
Yeah would have been nice to talk to L2 or L3 engineers... but there is no obvious way of getting access to those!
Just realised - AmirM measure 3.5V RMS... so really the tech that responded had no idea!
That's the good thing about D+M's, it is easier to acquire their service manuals and then you will know which DAC, OPA and Volume Control ICs are used. For example, we know the volume control IC for the D+M's (at least from 2016 through 2020) is the NJU72343. In fact you don't even need the SM to know that because Denon.jp did mention it, if I remember right.
According to the datasheet, the NJU72343 indicates its typical maximum output is 4.2 V. You can also see Denon's own measurements, thanks to Gene who posted it when he reviewed the AVR-X3600H (a preview actually). That graphs show the knee point at 4.25 V, THD+N just a touch above 0.002% (94 dB SINAD) and at 1% it would be about 4.5 V.
With the new Onkyo's, someone would have to open it up to see which vol IC they are now using. I do know the older (2017?)RZ820 has the BD34704KS2. That one has comparable output specs to the NJU72343. So if Onkyo/Pioneer are using that same chip in their current models, Amir's measured 92 dB SINAD at >3 V is absolutely within the capability of the devices.
This is probably a silly question, but I am definitely not an electrician.
How could one know if they are fully utilizing an external amp ?
Meaning the NC502MP has 2.35V sensitivity to get 500W into 4 ohm speakers
Or it's 2.77V sensitivity to get 350W into 8 ohm speakers.
Is there any way I could determine:
A: How much wattage I am pushing to my speakers?
or
B: How many Volts my AVR is pushing to the amp?
I imagine I would probably need some specific equipment. But I am just curious.
A: In terms of "wattage", it would be nearly impossible to determine accurately, because a) it does not stay constant, unless you use a test signal such as a sine wave, b) the impedance of a speaker varies with frequency, c) the phase angle between the applied voltage and the current draw by a speaker also varies with frequency. If all of the above are known, then you can have a good idea, but you still have to specify your speaker's sensitivity, distance, and your desired sound pressure level. Assuming you speaker's power handling spec is not the limiting factor, you can appreciate that you can "push" a lot more "watt" into your speakers if you require SPL at reference level, but only 1/10 of that if you only require 10 dB below reference level (like I do). By the way, one complication with a question like this is due to the fact that "wattage" is really not a suitable term to use with speakers, as we all know speakers are not resistors, you can't use Ohms Law to determine the "watts" they need. At a given voltage applied to the speaker, you can measure the current draw, but you still won't know (and it wouldn't mean much even if you do) the "wattage you are pushing....." because part (could be lots) of that would be dissipated in the power amplifier.
So yes you can determine it but you would have to specify the operating conditions, such as at a certain frequency, and you need to know the speaker's impedance and phase angle characteristics. Manufacturers typically would give you a nominal impedance but no phase angle curves.
B: You are correct, that you would need to name a specific "equipment" that you have the detailed specifications, then you need to specify the conditions as well. As you already know, the pre out voltage varies with the specified power amp output requirement, and also the acceptable distortions level since power amp's output level also varies with the distortion level.
At a simplistic level - you don't need to worry about it with the current Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer AVR's - as we already know from measurements that their output goes up to 3.5V
So other than adjusting Gain for optimum results (through the Speaker level settings & Dirac) - you are good to go (as you know that the max output power input voltage required by your power amp, is WITHIN the capabilities of the AVR)
Yes, external amplifier is necessary for best performance. Lowest efficiency and impedance will likely be in the bass frequencies where DIRAC will have to compensate for room modes, so you'll need the extra oomph from your amp for best bass performance.
If the speakers are relatively efficient and true 8ohm - then an external amp is unlikely to be needed.
The main constraint with this amp's design (power amps stages) - is that it is Current Limited.... so if the speaker impedance dips too low, the amp gets into trouble.
It is very very much speaker dependent.
Agreed. In this case, the speakers are rated at 86db, which is probably their 1khz efficiency rating, and I'm sure they dip much lower at lower frequencies. If his speakers are anything like my Kef R series that dip down to about 80db efficiency and 3.2ohm at their worst point, they will require a beefy amp.
