Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)

[stupidvillager]

In normal listening that may not happen. But you could get accidental pops, etc. that would push the unit into that mode. And stay there until you disconnected power.

How likely do you think this is to happen with speakers that are nominal 6 ohm?

 

[dlaloum]

Also in Australia and keeping an eye on the availability of DIRAC Live capable AVRs...

What are the chances that the Integra AVRs will measure differently (better or worse) than the ONKYO units? Are they really same electronics in a different box -- the price point of the Integra 5.4 vs Onkyo RZ50 seems to suggest some differences may exist?

In all past generations, reference to the service manuals showed most of the circuit boards to be the exact same part numbers.... typically with auxiliary circuit boards being different (eg: Trigger outputs/inputs)

From around 2008 onwards (when I started looking at the brand) - that has been the case.

Current series could potentially be different... but I doubt it! - We won't know for sure until the service manuals are available (will the new owners publish full service manuals like the old owners did?)

If and where different, Integra is traditionally supposed to be the higher quality brand, with better parts etc... But most of that in the past, was pure marketing BS... they were the same.

 

[drfrink24]

If and where different, Integra is traditionally supposed to be the higher quality brand, with better parts etc... But most of that in the past, was pure marketing BS... they were the same.

Which is why $2000 for the DRX 5.4 is a complete money grab...

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Why do you think that a limited PEQ can match your target in a room better than a automatic approach with much higher resolution correction that does spatial averaging?

Umm, if he's using REW and verifying the results, I'm not sure what your point is?

 

[Head_Unit]

Minidsp [Flex]

I agree with @Massimo though-why is that on the chart? It does not decode. To me the "processor" category should be stuff that will decode multichannel formats, since that is a kind of holy grail not met at highest quality (except by that one old JBL processor you mentioned).
- It would be nice if some DAC maker would come up with an interconnection scheme so you could parallel stereo DACs but with ganged volume control.
- I suspect one difficulty with AVRs is the engineers never get enough design time, and also the best best engineers probably get hired by other companies for more money, working on non-audio applications.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

I agree with @Massimo though-why is that on the chart? It does not decode. To me the "processor" category should be stuff that will decode multichannel formats, since that is a kind of holy grail not met at highest quality (except by that one old JBL processor you mentioned).
- It would be nice if some DAC maker would come up with an interconnection scheme so you could parallel stereo DACs but with ganged volume control.
- I suspect one difficulty with AVRs is the engineers never get enough design time, and also the best best engineers probably get hired by other companies for more money, working on non-audio applications.

The holdup here is DRM. Multi-Channel DAC's exist, cheap high performing stereo DAC's obviously exist. It's decoding the initial surround format and splitting it into 4-6 stereo PCM streams that's the problem. I'm honestly a little surprised that some enterprising person hasn't created a piggyback solution that would enable you to "clip on" a wiring harness at the right point in a budget AVR and get yourself there.

 

[dlaloum]

Onkyo TX-NR7100 9.2-Channel A/V Receiver Review

Performance Features Ergonomics Value

www.soundandvision.com

 

[SimpleTheater]

Onkyo TX-NR7100 9.2-Channel A/V Receiver Review

Performance Features Ergonomics Value

www.soundandvision.com

When did they stop putting products on a test bench? Sad what counts as a review today is worse than some of the YouTube reviews where some individual actually shows you the interface and other features.

 

[f1shb0n3]

I’d like to share some early subjective impressions of my Onkyo TX-RZ50 (the one Amir measured) after completing the first revision of setup and calibration.

5.4.4 setup with Infinity R263, R162 speakers and R12 subs, Buckeye NC502MP amps for LCR, the AVR powers the rest.
Calibrated the 4 subs for 6 positions with Multi-Sub Optimizer and MiniDSP 2x4HD, measured and calibrated Dirac Live with UMIK-2 microphone in focused imaging.

I will only say that I finally got what I’ve been looking for since I bought my first 5.1 computer speakers 20 years ago. Paired with a decent 4k HDR TV (LG C1 77” in my setup), I’m certain it can rival your average hometown movie theater in terms of immersion and impactful sound.

Dirac Live is the real star here and kudos to them for managing to integrate with Onkyo who has been obviously technically challenged for quite a long time (and unsurprisingly going bankrupt). It’s like putting a Tesla engine on your horse carriage, but then you still win the rally

It’s hard to explain what Dirac does, but it’s amazing and easy to A/B. I will confirm some impressions I’ve seen shared by others - it does make the speakers disappear and “extend the boundaries of the room” upwards and around into a sphere that seems to surround you. Breathtaking experience, could not go to bed last night watching my program material after finished with calibration

I’m planning to do a long post in a new thread detailing the calibration steps for MSO and Dirac with pictures and measurements. That’s not easy stuff, took me many days to research and experiment. Stay tuned, will post a link here when published.

 

[dlaloum]

When did they stop putting products on a test bench? Sad what counts as a review today is worse than some of the YouTube reviews where some individual actually shows you the interface and other features.

The ASR review should be applicable to the prepro section...

I am assuming the amps are the same design as the rz50, just 80% of the power...

I'm sure as soon as someone sends one in to Amir, we will see some real test data.

 

[Dj7675]

I’d like to share some early subjective impressions of my Onkyo TX-RZ50 (the one Amir measured) after completing the first revision of setup and calibration.

5.4.4 setup with Infinity R263, R162 speakers and R12 subs, Buckeye NC502MP amps for LCR, the AVR powers the rest.
Calibrated the 4 subs for 6 positions with Multi-Sub Optimizer and MiniDSP 2x4HD, measured and calibrated Dirac Live with UMIK-2 microphone in focused imaging.

I will only say that I finally got what I’ve been looking for since I bought my first 5.1 computer speakers 20 years ago. Paired with a decent 4k HDR TV (LG C1 77” in my setup), I’m certain it can rival your average hometown movie theater in terms of immersion and impactful sound.

Dirac Live is the real star here and kudos to them for managing to integrate with Onkyo who has been obviously technically challenged for quite a long time (and unsurprisingly going bankrupt). It’s like putting a Tesla engine on your horse carriage, but then you still win the rally

It’s hard to explain what Dirac does, but it’s amazing and easy to A/B. I will confirm some impressions I’ve seen shared by others - it does make the speakers disappear and “extend the boundaries of the room” upwards and around into a sphere that seems to surround you. Breathtaking experience, could not go to bed last night watching my program material after finished with calibration

I’m planning to do a long post in a new thread detailing the calibration steps for MSO and Dirac with pictures and measurements. That’s not easy stuff, took me many days to research and experiment. Stay tuned, will post a link here when published.

The TX-RZ50 with Dirac plus MSO should be a great combo with the external amps. A great work around for a unit that doesn’t have DLBC.

 

[Head_Unit]

Dirac...does make the speakers disappear and “extend the boundaries of the room” upwards and around into a sphere that seems to surround you.

Heck, that's been available for a long time! Google "marijuana"

 

[abdo123]

Since we know the internal DAC has the best performance at a specific voltage, and the EQ Dirac applies is in the digital domain, is there a way to force the DAC to work in it's optimum range voltage wise while digitally attenuating the signal so it balances out at a specified max speaker spl output?

And where will the volume control be?

 

[f1shb0n3]

The TX-RZ50 with Dirac plus MSO should be a great combo with the external amps. A great work around for a unit that doesn’t have DLBC.

Surprisingly great results after first rough calibration. I would have liked a digital subwoofer output better, but ADC good enough for bass I suspect.

I would also want a feature of the AVR - Play stereo on all front stage speakers. Center would no longer be phantom and the speakers would become tall and enveloping. Can any AVR do this?

 

[peng]

I do think the RZ50 can be a good choice if use with one sub and external amp, but but it's measurement is nowhere near as good as the AVR-X3700H (preamp mode) for normal use when most of the time the pre out voltage will be well below 1 V.

At 0.6 V, the Denon's pre out SINAD would be almost 10 dB better.
The Onkyo also did much worse in the frequency dependency test, with 7 to 8 dB lower in SINAD.
No idea how its IMD would perform as Amir did not measure it.

Personally I don't think the higher THD+N would make an audible difference, just want to mention that as a buyer beware thing, that even if used as prepro only, it's test results are not nearly as good as Denon's before the DAC change.

 

[hmt]

Umm, if he's using REW and verifying the results, I'm not sure what your point is?

YPAO only features a rather limited PEQ and with an good REQ and high resolution filters you actually do not need to tiker around. With YPOA you have to because of its limitations.

 

[SynthesisCinema]

I do think the RZ50 can be a good choice if use with one sub and external amp, but but it's measurement is nowhere near as good as the AVR-X3700H (preamp mode) for normal use when most of the time the pre out voltage will be well below 1 V.

At 0.6 V, the Denon's pre out SINAD would be almost 10 dB better.
The Onkyo also did much worse in the frequency dependency test, with 7 to 8 dB lower in SINAD.
No idea how its IMD would perform as Amir did not measure it.

Personally I don't think the higher THD+N would make an audible difference, just want to mention that as a buyer beware thing, that even if used as prepro only, it's test results are not nearly as good as Denon's before the DAC change.

Spec wise this model is closer to X4700H with 120w rating for 8ohm and same sized 15,000μF capacitors vs. X3700H = 105w & 12,000μF.
If you look the Yamaha flagship receivers and bench tests they have similar issues with the protection circuit pulling power down to 40-50w, but no one reports this as real world issue even with 9speakers and ref volumes. Also site using the unit to test different type of speakers for years and again no reported issues of this kind. So i wonder is this similar case with Onkyo where the bench test results vs. real world program material doesn`t really meet. I think so.

Subjectively the Onkyo is likely to sound better than Denon when Dirac is enabled so the measurements probably don´t mean much in the end. Kinda same thing as we saw here with the Arcam AV40 processor which didn´t do that good, but Amir said; Note: usage of Dirac EQ in this product should make it subjective sound excellent, erasing the pain of the above graphs.

 

[peng]

Spec wise this model is closer to X4700H with 120w rating for 8ohm and same sized 15,000μF capacitors vs. X3700H = 105w & 12,000μF.
If you look the Yamaha flagship receivers and bench tests they have similar issues with the protection circuit pulling power down to 40-50w, but no one reports this as real world issue even with 9speakers and ref volumes. Also site using the unit to test different type of speakers for years and again no reported issues of this kind. So i wonder is this similar case with Onkyo where the bench test results vs. real world program material doesn`t really meet. I think so.

Subjectively the Onkyo is likely to sound better than Denon when Dirac is enabled so the measurements probably don´t mean much in the end. Kinda same thing as we saw here with the Arcam AV40 processor which didn´t do that good, but Amir said; Note: usage of Dirac EQ in this product should make it subjective sound excellent, erasing the pain of the above graphs.

Agreed, my post is just for those who intend to use external amps only and may think the RZ50 measured just as good as the Denon on the preamp/dac part, when in fact there is still quite a gap if one looks deeper than just SINAD at 2 V output. I also did say I believe the difference won't make an audible difference (to me anyway) but again, it is just a "be aware of" kind of deal, that's all.

As to "subjectively" how one would sound to someone is something that, as you may know, I would never comment on let alone argue with, other than saying it would vary among people, anecdotal etc.,.., that kind of comments.

 

[GalZohar]

Sorry if I just don't understand, but do we know how this compares to the x3700h when EQ and internal amps are used for both? Or are the amp measurements only in direct/pure direct modes, and using DSP could induce additional noise not measured here?

 

[f1shb0n3]

Sorry if I just don't understand, but do we know how this compares to the x3700h when EQ and internal amps are used for both? Or are the amp measurements only in direct/pure direct modes, and using DSP could induce additional noise not measured here?

EQ is applied in digital domain so it shouldn’t change SINAD if used with digital source (not RCA IN where it does ADC).
Graphs are comparable, but the differences seen probably won’t be audible.

The most audible and important difference I’m curious to hear is Audyssey XT32 vs Dirac Live room EQ. Complicated setup for a proper comparison, not sure if I want to take upon, even though I have a Denon X3500 at home for a while (in addition to RZ50)..