Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)

[NirreFirre]

Sorry, a bit OT..Another abstract (2015) that has the interesting detail about a scalar slide input for users to select the preferred amount of "multi loudspeaker eq" and "ordinary" REQ:

..However, since a full dereverberation may not always be desirable, we shall here study the proposed method from the perspective of how to control the amount of room correction for a given number of contributing support loudspeakers. The amount of correction is controlled by a scalar parameter that we interpret as a "focus control," enabling the user to slide seamlessly between a single-channel equalizer and a full multichannel inversion of the room.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275248614_Multichannel_Room_Correction_with_Focus_Control

 

[SDMatt]

I ordered the TX-RZ50 several weeks ago and can‘t wait for it to arrive. Very excited. I will be using it as a pre/pro and pairing it with a D-Sonic Class D Power Amp. Anxious to experience the magic of Dirac for myself. Nice to see the review is positive for the preamp output voltage.

 

[Miker 1102]

Thanks, too much pages to go through but I did see this one:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-official-dirac-live-thread.3137722/page-2#post-59518062

If I compare his and mine after tweaking with the app for the range 20-200 Hz, mine is tighter, but his is definitely closer to spot on based on predicted vs actual, though he posted the single position mlp one only. I would have to keep reading to find one that he compared them for 8 positions, in order to do a better comparison.

Anyway as I thought when someone said "pot on" it might just be talking about +/- a few dB within the EQ's range. The one posted as linked above confirms what I expected. So no I would not call it spot on but again that's a matter of interpretation. The high frequency part looks amazing for sure. Hopefully within a week I will have some graphs to post once I got the PC version set up.

That would be great to get your interpretation of the difference between the two.

 

[peng]

That would be great to get your interpretation of the difference between the two.

It obvious depends on context, if I interpret such a term literally then I would take it as meaning precise, exact etc., and I would be splitting hair.
In this case, the peak to peak variation between the curve posted on AVSF (the one I linked and referred to) is about 4 dB from 20 to 200 Hz. That is excellent, but if I understand correctly, that curve was, according to Austin Jerry:

"I present the following data to support the single-point predicted response hypothesis.."

Since you asked, I did look again and realize that I made a mistake. @hmt was talking about predicted vs actual results, since Dirac's predicted results. So my comments above on the 4 dB peak to peak is not relevant. I'll see if I could edit my posts. And based on predicted vs actual, I saw about 1 dB peak to peak difference between the two. That's close enough to me for sure, but again keep in mind that's for a one mic position scenario.

By the way, just an aside from the point that I shouldn't have dwelled on:

I would like see Austin Jerry's best results based on 8 positions, or at least 4 to 6 mic positions in order to compare the results with others.
As far as I know, for real world use, Dirac, Audyssey, Anthem ARC, all recommend their users to use multiple mic positions. May be I'll find one eventually if I keep searching.. Or may be I can save time by asking him over there.

Also, keep in mind that comparing each others REQ on vs off FR graphs are interesting but I would not base on those to draw conclusions, because such comparisons are not really apple to apple unless done under near identical conditions. That would mean the same components are used in the same room, and basically everything the same except the REQ compared.

 

[hmt]

The point is that nobody would be able to judge easily where a 9 position multipoint measurment and its prediction in dirac is accurate or not and even make adjumstents via PEQ that would improve the result wrt to that average. People are imo massively overstating their ability to outcompete good algorithms. In 99.9% of cases adjustemnts after the corrections are made simply because of overstanting the importance of just one measuremnt at the MLP. I made that mistake in the past as well.

 

[SimpleTheater]

Also, keep in mind that comparing each others REQ on vs off FR graphs are interesting but I would not base on those to draw conclusions, because such comparisons are not really apple to apple unless done under near identical conditions. That would mean the same components are used in the same room, and basically everything the same except the REQ compared.

There are so many variations in setups that it would be hard to imagine anyone could ever say definitively one is ever better than another. My home theater speakers are JBL 3677's. I love them for their 99 db sensitivity, play as loud as I want them and I'm never worried about blowing a tweeter (I'm looking at you Totem and Paradigm ), but true to their specs, they fall off a cliff over 12 kHz. Now who has tested room correction with speakers like this? I know YPAO just gives up around 15 kHz with them, but will Audyssey/DIRAC attempt to keep compensating, turning them into distortion producing monsters for high frequencies? I have no idea and while I would predict any room correction will simply "give up" as does YPAO, I'm simply reinforcing your point, that there are so many variables an individual will have to test all to be sure which version works best for them.

 

[Flak]

There are so many variations in setups that it would be hard to imagine anyone could ever say definitively one is ever better than another. My home theater speakers are JBL 3677's. I love them for their 99 db sensitivity, play as loud as I want them and I'm never worried about blowing a tweeter (I'm looking at you Totem and Paradigm ), but true to their specs, they fall off a cliff over 12 kHz. Now who has tested room correction with speakers like this? I know YPAO just gives up around 15 kHz with them, but will Audyssey/DIRAC attempt to keep compensating, turning them into distortion producing monsters for high frequencies? I have no idea and while I would predict any room correction will simply "give up" as does YPAO, I'm simply reinforcing your point, that there are so many variables and individual will have to test all to be sure which version works best for them.

Dirac Live will measure the speakers and you'll see two dotted lines... they represent the detected range and Dirac will not try to correct beyond that in order to avoid the risk of asking more than possible from the speakers.
Nonetheless, it's possible to change the region of frequencies where the correction is applied by dragging the curtains (continuous lines)

 

[Miker 1102]

It obvious depends on context, if I interpret such a term literally then I would take it as meaning precise, exact etc., and I would be splitting hair.
In this case, the peak to peak variation between the curve posted on AVSF (the one I linked and referred to) is about 4 dB from 20 to 200 Hz. That is excellent, but if I understand correctly, that curve was, according to Austin Jerry:

"I present the following data to support the single-point predicted response hypothesis.."

Since you asked, I did look again and realize that I made a mistake. @hmt was talking about predicted vs actual results, since Dirac's predicted results. So my comments above on the 4 dB peak to peak is not relevant. I'll see if I could edit my posts. And based on predicted vs actual, I saw about 1 dB peak to peak difference between the two. That's close enough to me for sure, but again keep in mind that's for a one mic position scenario.

By the way, just an aside from the point that I shouldn't have dwelled on:

I would like see Austin Jerry's best results based on 8 positions, or at least 4 to 6 mic positions in order to compare the results with others.
As far as I know, for real world use, Dirac, Audyssey, Anthem ARC, all recommend their users to use multiple mic positions. May be I'll find one eventually if I keep searching.. Or may be I can save time by asking him over there.

Also, keep in mind that comparing each others REQ on vs off FR graphs are interesting but I would not base on those to draw conclusions, because such comparisons are not really apple to apple unless done under near identical conditions. That would mean the same components are used in the same room, and basically everything the same except the REQ compared.

Yes. The room dynamics, equipment, all of goes into the factoring of measurement. My interest in graphs is always looking to validate or verify what I am hearing. The only precise is how I can use these tools to get a sound that I prefer to my own enjoyment. After some time, I can learn by others experience and experimentation...like only using Audyssey for limited frequency range or using the app to remove the built in dip. I find this information invaluable to my listening experience. Basically this thread (like many others) drifts from the amp to the interpretation of sound. The last six or seven pages are essentially whether Audessy or Dirac is better at producing a sound which people enjoy. The answer is and remains open to interpretation and highly subjective. I love Asr becaue it has given me a much better understanding of how things work so then I can match them with my intuitive process. Thank you peng.

 

[Flak]

Basically this thread (like many others) drifts from the amp to the interpretation of sound. The last six or seven pages are essentially whether Audessy or Dirac is better at producing a sound which people enjoy. The answer is and remains open to interpretation and highly subjective.

Correct... the question is "What is good sound?" and is discussed here:

 

[radio3]

Can anyone comment on what the best reasonably priced way to get Dirac Live with multiple subs and Dolby Atmos is then, if these receivers perform rather poorly? I can do external amps. My main speakers and subwoofer are active anyway.

Monoprice HPT-1 with some kind of affordable multichannel amp for all the surround and height speakers?

 

[Dj7675]

Can anyone comment on what the best reasonably priced way to get Dirac Live with multiple subs and Dolby Atmos is then, if these receivers perform rather poorly? I can do external amps. Half of my speakers are active anyway.

If by “multiple subs”, do you mean that to include DLBC? I Could be wrong, but I think that would be an Arcam AVR5/AVR10. I think too, DLBC would cost extra. After Arcam, it might be the Monoprice HTP1.
If you don’t need/want DLBC then this would probably be a good option if you use external amps on the LCR. It can’t do DLBC though.
If/when the higher end models of Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra gets released, it will be interesting if they can do DLBC.

 

[valerianf]

Do somebody use the RZ50 with 4 ohms speakers directly connected?
It would be a good test to push the sound volume up and see what happens.
According to Amir tests it seems there is a very important design flaw there.

 

[dlaloum]

Do somebody use the RZ50 with 4 ohms speakers directly connected?
It would be a good test to push the sound volume up and see what happens.
According to Amir tests it seems there is a very important design flaw there.

Yes a number of people have used nominally 4 ohm speakers without any issues - and pushed them as loud as they could stand

So far reports of the amp going into protection mode in real life usage are very very rare.

Keep in mind that speakers with "nominal" 4 ohm ratings vary enormously in actual impedances - some can drop down to below 1 ohm (difficult load), and others actually have most of their frequency range at circa 5 ohm (easy load).... - The difficult load speakers are less common (by far).

 

[Keened]

Dirac Live will measure the speakers and you'll see two dotted lines... they represent the detected range and Dirac will not try to correct beyond that in order to avoid the risk of asking more than possible from the speakers.
Nonetheless, it's possible to change the region of frequencies where the correction is applied by dragging the curtains (continuous lines)

Since we know the internal DAC has the best performance at a specific voltage, and the EQ Dirac applies is in the digital domain, is there a way to force the DAC to work in it's optimum range voltage wise while digitally attenuating the signal so it balances out at a specified max speaker spl output?

 

[Kalcipher]

thank you for the review. after seeing your [updated] review of the denon avr x4700h i think that may be my next unit. i was considering the okyo tx-rz50 and probably would have bought it but it has been out of stock and back-ordered... unless there is a better option for comparable unit at similar price point [$1500-2000] i will most likely go with the 2yr old x4700h. i have an onkyo tx-nr1030 which has never communicated properly with my samsung 8 series 4k nor my multiple htpc's.

 

[dlaloum]

This is the alternative to the RZ50 that I have pre-ordered (6 months ago now, and still waiting.... no sign of them in Australia yet!!)

 

[drfrink24]

This is the alternative to the RZ50 that I have pre-ordered (6 months ago now, and still waiting.... no sign of them in Australia yet!!)

The 5.4, not the 3.4 is the alternative.

 

[dlaloum]

The 5.4, not the 3.4 is the alternative.

From my perspective... an alternative - I was seeking a full set of pre-outs, with at least 5.1.4

The NR7100 and LX305 don't meet those criteria... Power amp is not a big deal for me, as I will be using externals for the front channels

So the options were Integra 3.4 & 5.4 , Pioneer LX505, Onkyo RZ50.... the Pioneers have not yet been advertised in Austrlia, and the Onkyo's were not advertised up until November 2021... in pricing terms, I was offered a Pre-Order on a 3.4 at around AU$400 less than the RZ50... and the 5.4 has been priced substantially higher than the RZ50.

Yes it is the alternative. (for me, and based on my criteria)

 

[amirm]

Do somebody use the RZ50 with 4 ohms speakers directly connected?
It would be a good test to push the sound volume up and see what happens.
According to Amir tests it seems there is a very important design flaw there.

In normal listening that may not happen. But you could get accidental pops, etc. that would push the unit into that mode. And stay there until you disconnected power.

 

[Ata]

From my perspective... an alternative - I was seeking a full set of pre-outs, with at least 5.1.4

The NR7100 and LX305 don't meet those criteria... Power amp is not a big deal for me, as I will be using externals for the front channels

So the options were Integra 3.4 & 5.4 , Pioneer LX505, Onkyo RZ50.... the Pioneers have not yet been advertised in Austrlia, and the Onkyo's were not advertised up until November 2021... in pricing terms, I was offered a Pre-Order on a 3.4 at around AU$400 less than the RZ50... and the 5.4 has been priced substantially higher than the RZ50.

Yes it is the alternative. (for me, and based on my criteria)

Also in Australia and keeping an eye on the availability of DIRAC Live capable AVRs...

What are the chances that the Integra AVRs will measure differently (better or worse) than the ONKYO units? Are they really same electronics in a different box -- the price point of the Integra 5.4 vs Onkyo RZ50 seems to suggest some differences may exist?