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Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)

Rate this product:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 96 31.6%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 114 37.5%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 63 20.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 31 10.2%

  • Total voters
    304

dlaloum

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I thought (had hoped) that the jitter issues had been resolved a couple of AVR generations back... - it certainly is far better than it was in 2006 .... but it should be better.
 

peng

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I'm so glad you tested for this..... and it's disappointing! I have a Denon AVR-X4400H in a mixed use system, and for 2 channel listening, I use Dirac Live/Processor on the PC and send 192kHz to the AVR in Pure Direct Mode to full range speakers. I understand that processor intensive room correction warrants a resample to 48kHz but it'd be nice to utilize bass management for 2 channel+sub without the resolution hair cut. I've asked Sound United and they insist it doesn't but I'd be surprised. It'd be great to see you do this test on one of their products. Do you have any in the pipeline?

I have the x4400h too and I am quite sure it won't down sample if you simply set speakers size, crossover, and use direct mode.
 

Golfx

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I don't think I ever built one. Is there one off-the-shelf?

Amir. This one is well regarded.
 

dlaloum

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My interpretation...

The key issues are:

1) Power amp goes into nanny/self protection mode far too easily - so the 120W/ch amp ends up as a 40W/ch amp. An issue with any 4ohm or difficult to drive speakers. (this has been an ongoing issue with the house of Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer)
2) The pre-amp / processor is OK - mid market stats - not fantastic on SINAD/THD+N, but not shameful either
3) Pre-Out distortion seems to happen when HDMI inputs are set to max volume - dropping it down to 90 sorts it out... worthwhile knowing! - but shouldn't be happening (should be sortable with a firmware update?)
4) Jitter on HDMI inputs (and on coax?!) ... thought this was sorted out years ago, but it is still there :( - on the other hand it is at a very low level - not likely to be audible.
5) Amp output quality is mid-low market... 77db SINAD

Positives:

1) Good Dynamic range (17.5bit+)
2) Good SINAD / THD+N if not exceptional - 97db, 0.0015% - Pre-amp / processor
3) Good clean Pre out V - going out to 3.5V - should drive almost any power amps easily

Basically this should be quite a good Pre-Pro... with internal amps used to drive Surround/height channels only
Good traditional do everything AVR only for those who have true 8ohm speakers
 

levimax

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I am starting to think that these AVR's have too many features and are just too complex to design, develop, and produce at the volumes and prices required. They get it 90%+ right but the "bugs".... like "30 watts @ 4 Ohms" are just killer and not easily "fixed". Every single AVR tested here has had some serious "bugs".
 

capt.s

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I have the x4400h too and I am quite sure it won't down sample if you simply set speakers size, crossover, and use direct mode.
I hope that to be the case but you can't know for sure without a test Amir just did on the Onkyo. My main gripe is that AVR's in general freely tell you the input signal but not the post processing output. Arguably inaudible or not, people pay extra for high-rez recordings and assume they're getting it..... but maybe not due their equipment down sampling down stream.
 

martijn86

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Why is the Minidsp Flex in the comparison table classified as a Home Theatre AVR/Processor?
It is a processor. It modifies the signal in the digital domain so it is prone to the same performance limiting bottlenecks as AVR's.
 

Beershaun

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It's great to see this graph fill out over time and show an ever growing group of "green" AVRs to show we don't have to settle for poor audio quality in favor of codecs, channels and features.
 

mblack5

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Thank you Amir and who ever sent in the sample as I have been interested in this generation AVR since they were announced. Amp load sensitivity is not pretty. I caved and picked up the DRX3.4 2 weeks ago since steady supply and potential discounts seemed too far out. The RZ50 is a bit better value but an inch too tall for my cabinet layout. My unit recognized the ethernet cable right away and stated update complete after several minutes. I think I did have to cycle the power manually to restart. Replaced 10 year old AVR for ARC and Dirac (hoping for a dividend here) and am running w/ 2 channel Buckeye amp for the fronts. Initial set up via PC and umik-1. All is working well so far, but really need to take a REW measure next. Been following and learning from this site intently for the past year and greatly appreciate all the contributors
 
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Dj7675

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Thanks for another in depth review @amirm . Receivers must take a ton of work for you with their ever increasing complexity. People can debate all they want about what is important or meaningful in regards to measurements... but we wouldn’t have any data without a great in depth review like this and finding out things like the amps being severely limited.
 

Shazb0t

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I'm baffled that you'd suggest that avoiding resampling to 44.1/48 kHz is so important that it warrants foregoing bass management and only using full range speakers. The choice between using a crossover, vs. full range speakers, is quite fundamental, has tons of implications on audio system design, and as such can result in extremely audible differences. In contrast, the kind of resampling you're worried about here is practically impossible to hear (unless the resampler is badly broken). The idea that someone would suddenly decide to completely rethink their entire approach and go for a completely different set of speakers just to bypass some resampler seems a bit ridiculous to me. I'm going to assume I misunderstood and this is just poor wording?

I mean… if I was stuck with this AVR, and bookshelf speakers, then my reaction to this resampler thing would be "oh well, that's not great, but it's not like this is going to make much difference" (assuming I even cared about >48 kHz audio, which I don't). My reaction surely wouldn't be "oh shit there's a resampler! better buy a new AVR or get full range speakers!". That would be ludicrous.
I'm in agreement. I don't understand the framing around the resampling "all or nothing" with using DSP when anyone who actually buys this product would be foolish not to utilize the DSP features. The rating importance placed on purchasing surround sound audio receivers with Parametric EQ capabilities only to run them in "Pure" or "Direct" modes misses the mark in my opinion.
 
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amirm

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I'm baffled that you'd suggest that avoiding resampling to 44.1/48 kHz is so important that it warrants foregoing bass management and only using full range speakers. The choice between using a crossover, vs. full range speakers, is quite fundamental, has tons of implications on audio system design, and as such can result in extremely audible differences.
You are drawing the wrong conclusion. People who play high res music pay extra for that and like to know that their system is playing such. To the extend this AVR can't, then the work-around is as I suggested: build your system around full-range speakers. Then you are not missing anything. Your solution neuters high-res music and is just not acceptable. I have thousands of dollars worth of high-res music that I own. I want to play them that way. Period. I am not bending over to what this AVR wants to do.

Your suggestion says to get something as basic as bass management, I have to give up sample rate. And with it, give a pass to these manufacturers. So they will never up the sample rate. They have been doing this for decades now. Maybe 10 years ago they could justify keeping rates this low but not anymore, and not in something that costs $1,500.
 
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amirm

amirm

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BTW, there is a "free" way from them to do this. When someone plays just two channel audio, up the sample rate. There is a ton of computing power here spread to 9+ channels. Lower that to two channels and sample rate can be much higher. Indeed, I have advocated that these companies have a proper, 2-channel mode which gets rid of a ton of assumptions they make about the format. SNR, SINAD, etc. can all be improved substantially in this mode.
 

AdamG

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You are drawing the wrong conclusion. People who play high res music pay extra for that and like to know that their system is playing such. To the extend this AVR can't, then the work-around is as I suggested: build your system around full-range speakers. Then you are not missing anything. Your solution neuters high-res music and is just not acceptable. I have thousands of dollars worth of high-res music that I own. I want to play them that way. Period. I am not bending over to what this AVR wants to do.

Your suggestion says to get something as basic as bass management, I have to give up sample rate. And with it, give a pass to these manufacturers. So they will never up the sample rate. They have been doing this for decades now. Maybe 10 years ago they could justify keeping rates this low but not anymore, and not in something that costs $1,500.
They just don’t think we would listen to Music using our Audio Video Recievers (AVR). Or don’t care? :confused:

Bravo to your quoted post.
 

DerRoland

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Thank you for this deep review, so much of us waiting for an alternative for the sell out AKM Denons. Now the only chance for a hopefully equal performance are the not yet tested Yamaha A4/6/8A or a new line of Sound United Receivers in 2023. In the meantime the prices goes in only one direction: Up, up, up.
 

beagleman

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It's great to see this graph fill out over time and show an ever growing group of "green" AVRs to show we don't have to settle for poor audio quality in favor of codecs, channels and features.
I think you are making quite a jump/conclusion, that something would sound "poor" based on some certain measurements.

If you were to say, "Not measure great", I might agree, but having actually heard some of the AVRs tested here, and actually having extensive listening also, I can tell you with certainty, no AVR I have heard, has sounded "Poor" in any way.

You are making the assumption that a high Sinad guarantees great sound and a mediocre Sinad means poor sound. Simply not true.
In actual listening, I would wager, you would probably not be able to tell one from the other under almost all circumstances.

I say all of this NOT to defend AVRs or yamaha AVRs in particular, but due to me thinking the same way. "They must sound mediocre and horrible". When after actually hearing one, and then getting two used ones, found it just not even remotely true.
 
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