Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)

[ban25]

So again, the remaining question is what the firmware update does/doesn't do to protection mode on existing RZ50s. One could save $100s if happy with one sub, no pre-outs and still get Dirac.

Unless Gene or Amir test an old model with updated firmware, we are unlikely to ever know. Should the RZ30 be discounted on Black Friday, it would make for a compelling option.

 

[Timcognito]

Stereo Soundstage and audio electronics

Hello all, I came across this video review of the denon 3800 avr from Andrew Robinson, who claims that with all being equal (speakers, placement, room correction off etc etc), there was a significant difference in stereo soundstage between this avr and others such as the onkyo rz50. Check...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[dlaloum]

Agreed. But I will also point out that no 2023+ released product from PAC exhibits the Limp Mode described in Amir's reviews of older products.

Sure but so far the RZ30 is the only lower end product released in that period.

If the protection/limp mode is triggered by sensors, and the higher end models (RZ70,8.4,805)have better heatsinks and heavier duty power supplies (which they do) - then that mode might not be triggered for the test conditions, whereas the "lightweights" of the family might hit their limits within the envelope of the 5W test...

So they may well have the exact same mechanisms in place....

 

[EWL5]

So again, the remaining question is what the firmware update does/doesn't do to protection mode on existing RZ50s. One could save $100s if happy with one sub, no pre-outs and still get Dirac.

I do sympathize w/you especially since the RZ50 represents a great value but it's too early to tell if the limp mode has been fixed by firmware or no longer "a thing" on the RZ30.

My suggestion is to buy the best deal this Black Friday and make sure there's an easy return policy once you start testing at home!

 

[ban25]

Sure but so far the RZ30 is the only lower end product released in that period.

If the protection/limp mode is triggered by sensors, and the higher end models (RZ70,8.4,805)have better heatsinks and heavier duty power supplies (which they do) - then that mode might not be triggered for the test conditions, whereas the "lightweights" of the family might hit their limits within the envelope of the 5W test...

So they may well have the exact same mechanisms in place....

I'd argue that the Onkyo TX-8740 and Integra DTM-7.4 are both in the same sub-$1000 market as the RZ30/50 and those models do not exhibit Limp Mode.

 

[dlaloum]

I'd argue that the Onkyo TX-8740 and Integra DTM-7.4 are both in the same sub-$1000 market as the RZ30/50 and those models do not exhibit Limp Mode

I'd agree with you - looking at the DTM-7.4 it is formally specced at 140W@4ohm stereo 1% THD (would be nice to know under what test regime!)

 

[silverstreak_2006]

OK, so some more playing accomplished this evening, and I can confirm that using speakers and any form of drive, the unit does not like test tones continually playing, so this would hamper and be worse if saturated like Amir's test I am guessing. If I stop the tone for a minute and start it again, I can trip the 4 ohm and 6ohm rails in with volume adjustment, you can hear the relay clicking at -22 and -29. I think if it can sense the tone, and it is not above the lower rail it will switch it down, or simply it may just not like such conditions. I should be able to use it normally and it should be ok.

 

[silverstreak_2006]

OK I since discovered that if I stop and start the tones within a certain time frame it does not drop the voltage of the PSU to 4 ohm mode. I tried changing the frequency but it must sense this as the same voltage or something. I'll see if I can vary the output, but I am guessing it will work fine for programs. I think it is some form of eco mode, that will switch up on demand until it hits 60 deg C then drops it anyway. The fan cut in to low at 55 Deg c the same. So with the limited testing I can do, not having resistors to go all out, I'm guessing it will switch back after each test without having to drop the power, you'd have to be patient with it. I'll try and vary the volume from the source and see if it tricks it that way.

 

[silverstreak_2006]

OK so neither seem to work. When you dial the volume to -22 or higher, it kicks in, but after a few minutes it drops the rail back again, and doesn't do anything until stop the program, perhaps he sees something over bluetooth and assumes with music, 30 watts or so is enough for cooling and green affects. I'll try something over HDMI, and Spotifty Connect.

 

[silverstreak_2006]

Prior to these tests, I think what they have done is made this so somebody like Amir can bench test it and get big numbers but in reality it is limiting back on normal use, which helps it run cooler and probably some global mandatory push to "save the planet".

So far it is looking like "sneaky f*****"

I'll test on.....

 

[silverstreak_2006]

OK, I'm not seeing the timeout on Spotify connect like I was on bluetooth. (I just wanted to use a tone generator to test). I imagine HDMI and other sources should be ok. I know it stays in high V mode, as the temp rises in the GUI. Strange how it reset when the bluetooth source was stopped and started, I was able to warm it up. Leave it running whether it be a tone or music, and it would just time out and jump to 4ohm rail mode. So the "Sneaky f******" statement I would say is a bug on that part with the bluetooth, with what I have experienced on Spotify connect. I would imagine it has been tested well on DD / PCM over HDMI ok, and probably completely dependant on the volume with analogue. So it leaves the saturation test "Amir" style to do I guess.

 

[SDMatt]

I downloaded the recently released firmware update for my RZ50. I tried using the Onkyo afterwards but my inputs had a difficult time locking on to the source. I performed a manual reset of my unit and everything now works great. All my settings were erased but after I reconfigured the receiver, everything is perfect. One thing I did notice: Dirac now has a Bass Management feature (separate from Bass Control) that appears to have automatically set the crossovers for each speaker. The crossovers set by Dirac are a bit higher than I originally had them. Question: Is there a way of checking/confirming Dirac's Bass Management setting? Can I even adjust it now that Dirac has set it or is it now fixed?

 

[anioq]

I downloaded the recently released firmware update for my RZ50. I tried using the Onkyo afterwards but my inputs had a difficult time locking on to the source. I performed a manual reset of my unit and everything now works great. All my settings were erased but after I reconfigured the receiver, everything is perfect. One thing I did notice: Dirac now has a Bass Management feature (separate from Bass Control) that appears to have automatically set the crossovers for each speaker. The crossovers set by Dirac are a bit higher than I originally had them. Question: Is there a way of checking/confirming Dirac's Bass Management setting? Can I even adjust it now that Dirac has set it or is it now fixed?

Given my experience with A1 Evo, after changing the crossover the EQ filters will have to be re-calculated (and sometimes no solutions can be found). So if it let your change the crossover but does not perform additional calculation afterwards, it will be sub optimal.

 

[dlaloum]

Best way to be sure, is to cross check using a tool like REW - because the indicated "after adjustment" frequency response is a Dirac best guess.... and may not match reality!

Using a post Dirac tuning REW F/R measurement, will quickly tell you whether things are pretty good or pretty bad!

Many people have observed that a slight shift in crossover frequency will sometimes resolve substantive issues...

As an aside - in my case the estimate and the REW measurement were well nigh identical and I am a happy chappy....

I initially did an AccuEQ setup - and let it choose its crossovers, before doing the Dirac setup - the result has worked well for my room. (setup is 5.1.4)

 

[EWL5]

I downloaded the recently released firmware update for my RZ50. I tried using the Onkyo afterwards but my inputs had a difficult time locking on to the source. I performed a manual reset of my unit and everything now works great. All my settings were erased but after I reconfigured the receiver, everything is perfect. One thing I did notice: Dirac now has a Bass Management feature (separate from Bass Control) that appears to have automatically set the crossovers for each speaker. The crossovers set by Dirac are a bit higher than I originally had them. Question: Is there a way of checking/confirming Dirac's Bass Management setting? Can I even adjust it now that Dirac has set it or is it now fixed?

There's a slider that allows you to adjust the crossover either globally or by speaker group. This is available under the "Bass Management" menu in Dirac and must be done before filter transfer to the RZ50 since it can't be changed in the AVR after the fact!

On a related note, is the "SW bug" no longer a thing on the RZ50 now that Bass Management is part of Dirac?

 

[Flak]

When calibrating with Bass Control please take my post here into account (click “See more”):

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/dirac-live-bass-control-and-crossover-frequencies.3177010/

 

[tbob22]

OK I since discovered that if I stop and start the tones within a certain time frame it does not drop the voltage of the PSU to 4 ohm mode. I tried changing the frequency but it must sense this as the same voltage or something. I'll see if I can vary the output, but I am guessing it will work fine for programs. I think it is some form of eco mode, that will switch up on demand until it hits 60 deg C then drops it anyway. The fan cut in to low at 55 Deg c the same. So with the limited testing I can do, not having resistors to go all out, I'm guessing it will switch back after each test without having to drop the power, you'd have to be patient with it. I'll try and vary the volume from the source and see if it tricks it that way.

I've noticed something like this as well. Above 60 deg it limits power. Under that it seems to deliver full power in real content. It doesn't take that much for it to reach 60 deg though. After reading another post and trying it I also noticed it seems to recover the full power after it drops back below that temp.

 

[EWL5]

I've noticed something like this as well. Above 60 deg it limits power. Under that it seems to deliver full power in real content. It doesn't take that much for it to reach 60 deg though. After reading another post and trying it I also noticed it seems to recover the full power after it drops back below that temp.

It's quite possible that the latest firmware no longer requires unplugging the AVR and plugging back in to get out of limp mode. Now, it's simply on temperature permissive control!

 

[Rottmannash]

Check out post #11553. It appears the "limp mode" is occurring prior to the latest firmware and after and oddly one poster states the AVR recovers w/o unplugging the unit to return to normal output mode, even prior to the update. Strange indeed.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/2021-onkyo-tx-rz50-owners-thread-nr7100-owners-welcome.3227263/page-578#replies

 

[EWL5]

Check out post #11553. It appears the "limp mode" is occurring prior to the latest firmware and after and oddly one poster states the AVR recovers w/o unplugging the unit to return to normal output mode, even prior to the update. Strange indeed.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/2021-onkyo-tx-rz50-owners-thread-nr7100-owners-welcome.3227263/page-578#replies

I've pretty much been driven out of that thread. Looks like "evidence" is only valid if I was an actual RZ50/7100 owner.