Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)

[Dougey_Jones]

Apologies if these questions have been answered elsewhere in this thread, I did search by some keywords and did not see direct answers.

1) Which of the Onkyo digital filters should I be using, Auto, Slow or Sharp?
2) I just finished setting up Dirac with my laptop and UMIK-1 for the first time after having done a "quick and dirty" calibration with the included cheapie mic, the difference between the two calibrations is astonishing... It sounds absolutely perfect for 2-channel stereo, but the bass is a little anemic for home theater use. How would you guys recommend quickly switching back and forth between more bass for HT and the spot-on calibration that I just created for stereo? Should I:

1. Create a second Dirac slot that has a bass boost for a specific frequency range
2. Go into the menu each time I want to use HT and adjust the subwoofer level up
3. Some other option I don't know about?

 

[dlaloum]

Apologies if these questions have been answered elsewhere in this thread, I did search by some keywords and did not see direct answers.

1) Which of the Onkyo digital filters should I be using, Auto, Slow or Sharp?
2) I just finished setting up Dirac with my laptop and UMIK-1 for the first time after having done a "quick and dirty" calibration with the included cheapie mic, the difference between the two calibrations is astonishing... It sounds absolutely perfect for 2-channel stereo, but the bass is a little anemic for home theater use. How would you guys recommend quickly switching back and forth between more bass for HT and the spot-on calibration that I just created for stereo? Should I:

1. Create a second Dirac slot that has a bass boost for a specific frequency range
2. Go into the menu each time I want to use HT and adjust the subwoofer level up
3. Some other option I don't know about?

You can also use the bass control on the remote

 

[Rottmannash]

Apologies if these questions have been answered elsewhere in this thread, I did search by some keywords and did not see direct answers.

1) Which of the Onkyo digital filters should I be using, Auto, Slow or Sharp?
2) I just finished setting up Dirac with my laptop and UMIK-1 for the first time after having done a "quick and dirty" calibration with the included cheapie mic, the difference between the two calibrations is astonishing... It sounds absolutely perfect for 2-channel stereo, but the bass is a little anemic for home theater use. How would you guys recommend quickly switching back and forth between more bass for HT and the spot-on calibration that I just created for stereo? Should I:

1. Create a second Dirac slot that has a bass boost for a specific frequency range
2. Go into the menu each time I want to use HT and adjust the subwoofer level up
3. Some other option I don't know about?

You can always use one slot for a +6 dB or +8 dB Harman curve.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

You can always use one slot for a +6 dB or +8 dB Harman curve.

This whole situation sent me down a rabbit hole, and now I'm reallllly confused.

I have always used PotPlayer as my home theater media playback software as it does a reliable job passing almost any surround track to the receiver over HDMI. Lately I've been having issues where the sound will cut out inexplicably and to get it to come back I have to track forward or backward a few frames. No big deal, troubleshooting stuff is common with HTPC setups. Anyway, I decided to download VLC just to see if it also cut out at the same frame, which would be indicative of a corrupted file, what happened next made no sense.

VLC passed SO much more LFE information for the same file that it caused my sub to completely bottom out and dance across the room. The scene in question is when Gandalf speaks in the "black speech" in Rivendell in LOTR FOTR. What doesn't make sense to me is, how? Both software's were set to pass the encoded soundtrack to the receiver, and I could see on the front panel that that was taking place. How could one have such different LFE info?

 

[Keened]

Check the downmix/routing settings and crossover would be my guess. It sounds like LFE is being sent twice: once from the general frequency routing crossover (either the 120hz default for speakers in Windows or if you set a specific cross over) and then from the discrete LFE.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Check the downmix/routing settings and crossover would be my guess. It sounds like LFE is being sent twice: once from the general frequency routing crossover (either the 120hz default for speakers in Windows or if you set a specific cross over) and then from the discrete LFE.

I’ll check. I guess I’m just confused because, if I’ve selected “pass through”, then shouldn’t whatever is encoded in the MKV just be routed via SPDIF to the receiver?

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

Hi everybody, my first post here, happy to have found this site and forum where HiFi is scientifically approached, being tired of the "esotheric" view that sells one century old tech (tubes, turntables) as "better sounding" because distortion makes the sound "warmer".
Anyways, I'm writing here because I'm in the process of replacing my (not so good)-old Onkyo PR-RZ5100 for a new preamp or most likely an AVR whose amp I'll not use, because looks like pre-pros have become super high-end only products and I'm not willing to spend thousands on a device that will be obsolete in a few years.
The key functionalities I'm looking for are Dirac Live, HDMI 2.1, a good DAC (just for movie playback, I don't use the HT for stereo listening) and, maybe, Auro3D (not for the format itself, that is basically dead, but because I heard somewhere, maybe a Audioholics YT video, that the "Auromatic" system is the best upmixer for sources are not natively Atmos or DTS:X.
I was considering the RZ50 (if I manage to find one, they are out of stock basically everywhere) because I've always loved the brand (before the PR-RZ5100, I had a PR-SC886, that I liked more) and as surround power amp I have their PA-MC5100 (yes, I know, nobody likes it, but for me it does its job, provided, as stated, I don't use it to power the main L and R speakers) so on the "looks" side it'd be the best choice.
I read this review but, as said, I don't care about the amplifier flaws, because I'm not gonna use it, I'm just concerned about the future of the brand so its support (especially when you have something like Dirac Live, that keeps being updated very often) and the fact that I'd be buying in 2023 a 2021 product.
Alternatives I'm considering are the Denon X3800 (and its Marantz sibling Cinema 50) that have Auro3d and, if I win the lottery, the Arcam AVR11 that would check all my boxes but costs, Dirac Bass License included, almost four times the Onkyo.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

 

[dlaloum]

Hi everybody, my first post here, happy to have found this site and forum where HiFi is scientifically approached, being tired of the "esotheric" view that sells one century old tech (tubes, turntables) as "better sounding" because distortion makes the sound "warmer".
Anyways, I'm writing here because I'm in the process of replacing my (not so good)-old Onkyo PR-RZ5100 for a new preamp or most likely an AVR whose amp I'll not use, because looks like pre-pros have become super high-end only products and I'm not willing to spend thousands on a device that will be obsolete in a few years.
The key functionalities I'm looking for are Dirac Live, HDMI 2.1, a good DAC (just for movie playback, I don't use the HT for stereo listening) and, maybe, Auro3D (not for the format itself, that is basically dead, but because I heard somewhere, maybe a Audioholics YT video, that the "Auromatic" system is the best upmixer for sources are not natively Atmos or DTS:X.
I was considering the RZ50 (if I manage to find one, they are out of stock basically everywhere) because I've always loved the brand (before the PR-RZ5100, I had a PR-SC886, that I liked more) and as surround power amp I have their PA-MC5100 (yes, I know, nobody likes it, but for me it does its job, provided, as stated, I don't use it to power the main L and R speakers) so on the "looks" side it'd be the best choice.
I read this review but, as said, I don't care about the amplifier flaws, because I'm not gonna use it, I'm just concerned about the future of the brand so its support (especially when you have something like Dirac Live, that keeps being updated very often) and the fact that I'd be buying in 2023 a 2021 product.
Alternatives I'm considering are the Denon X3800 (and its Marantz sibling Cinema 50) that have Auro3d and, if I win the lottery, the Arcam AVR11 that would check all my boxes but costs, Dirac Bass License included, almost four times the Onkyo.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

As an owner of one of the closely related Integra cousins of the RZ5100 ... I would say that the RZ5100 is actually a pretty damn good pre-pro... yes it is dated, and does not include some of the more current formats, decoders and mixers.

The key gap (in my opinion) is that of Room EQ... and my own Integra DTR70.4 was based on Audyssey XT32... and definitely sounded inferior to Dirac Live.

WIth regards to AccuEQ... to be honest I have not tried it, I jumped straight into DL, and found it excellent - I don't know whether AccuEQ (the rebadged Onkyo version of Pioneers MCACC) has a marketing problem (ie: it is undervalued) or whether it really is a step down... some people have claimed that MCACC/AccuEQ are actually very good.

All I am saying is that in terms of the base capabilities, the RZ5100 is a well engineered prepro.... and should (in theory) in fact be a step up on the RZ50 in that sense.

As of October/November last year, Onkyo was stating that they had "the model up from the RZ70" (ie: the RZ90, either in prepro or in AVR version) - in their US Auditorium and it was sounding good... (the Japanese designers/engineers were over in the US HQ, and had brought the kit with them I presume).

To my (optimistic) ears, that means that the RZ70/RZ90 should be ready for prime time - it really is a matter of the marketing team deciding when and how to launch them....

These would be the equivalent models to your RZ5100...

I purchased the Integra DRX3.4 baby brother as my stop gap about 1 year back... and have been very happy with it (since my DTR70.4, released its magic smoke, and I have been unable to get the replacement board to repair it! - still the DRX3.4 with external amps, sounds better than the old 70.4)

So it can be a worthwhile stopgap approach pending the realease of the true flagship models. (But yeah, I would not have made the jump if my old AVR had kept working)

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

As an owner of one of the closely related Integra cousins of the RZ5100 ... I would say that the RZ5100 is actually a pretty damn good pre-pro... yes it is dated, and does not include some of the more current formats, decoders and mixers.

The key gap (in my opinion) is that of Room EQ... and my own Integra DTR70.4 was based on Audyssey XT32... and definitely sounded inferior to Dirac Live.

WIth regards to AccuEQ... to be honest I have not tried it, I jumped straight into DL, and found it excellent - I don't know whether AccuEQ (the rebadged Onkyo version of Pioneers MCACC) has a marketing problem (ie: it is undervalued) or whether it really is a step down... some people have claimed that MCACC/AccuEQ are actually very good.

All I am saying is that in terms of the base capabilities, the RZ5100 is a well engineered prepro.... and should (in theory) in fact be a step up on the RZ50 in that sense.

As of October/November last year, Onkyo was stating that they had "the model up from the RZ70" (ie: the RZ90, either in prepro or in AVR version) - in their US Auditorium and it was sounding good... (the Japanese designers/engineers were over in the US HQ, and had brought the kit with them I presume).

To my (optimistic) ears, that means that the RZ70/RZ90 should be ready for prime time - it really is a matter of the marketing team deciding when and how to launch them....

These would be the equivalent models to your RZ5100...

I purchased the Integra DRX3.4 baby brother as my stop gap about 1 year back... and have been very happy with it (since my DTR70.4, released its magic smoke, and I have been unable to get the replacement board to repair it! - still the DRX3.4 with external amps, sounds better than the old 70.4)

So it can be a worthwhile stopgap approach pending the realease of the true flagship models. (But yeah, I would not have made the jump if my old AVR had kept working)

Thanks for the reply. AccuEQ is really awful (basically it doesn't apply any equalization at all, checked with REW) and it's the main reason I wanna replace the 5100 (IMAX Enhanced and HDR10+ are not a priority, provided the lack of content and my current TV is still HDMI 2.0 only).
I've messaged few months ago Onkyo support about any new releases but got no answer. I'd like to upgrade between now and March, don't wanna wait till the end of the year for Onkyo.

 

[Rottmannash]

Thanks for the reply. AccuEQ is really awful (basically it doesn't apply any equalization at all, checked with REW) and it's the main reason I wanna replace the 5100 (IMAX Enhanced and HDR10+ are not a priority, provided the lack of content and my current TV is still HDMI 2.0 only).
I've messaged few months ago Onkyo support about any new releases but got no answer. I'd like to upgrade between now and March, don't wanna wait till the end of the year for Onkyo.

RZ10 does pass HDR10+.

 

[NeedForSpeed73]

RZ10 does pass HDR10+.

Yes I know. But my 5100 doesn't. So I had to bypass it using the separate HDMI outs of the Blu-ray player to get HDR10+ on the TV. Of all the movies I own, only "Jaws" uses this format (and it looks amazig, can't tell if it's because of HDR10+ or just that is a very good scan).

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Alright guys, having a really frustrating issue and hoping someone can help..

I've been using Home Theater PC's for twenty years at this point, and never seen this issue a single time with any other brand of AVR. Basically, if I have my HTPC plugged into my RZ-50 via HDMI, and I try to use any of the Pre-Outs, there is significant noise that carries from the AVR to the external amplifier, and it affects ALL HDMI inputs, not just the one being used for the computer. If I use the internal Onkyo amplifiers, everything is quiet as a mouse, which makes zero sense to me. If I turn the computer off and use Xbox, PS4, or any other HDMI input, the pre-outs are clean as a whistle. I have tried using a different PC, and the result is identical.

I know some of you are going to say, why not just use the Onkyo amps? Basic answer is, I like my external amps and want to use them and shouldn't have to compromise on this in my opinion.

One diagnostic note: If I plug either PC into my Monster HTS3500 line conditioner, the "noise" is cut significantly, but not to a point where I'd be happy with the outcome permanently.

What would you do if you were me?

Wanted to reply to my own post here to let everyone know that this has been resolved. The PC HDMI output was causing a ground loop in the receiver that carried through the Onkyo's preamp outputs. The solution was to use a Rolls HE18 Hum & Buzz remover between the preamp output and the external amplifier input. Everything back to normal now.

Great product - https://rolls.com/product/HE18

 

[crazyunclejeff]

Hi, this worries me as I also will use only external amps. I havent heard anyone else say this, so dont know why you had it. I am trying to decide b/w the Onkyo and the Denon 3800. The onkyo is $100 cheaper plus Dirac full will be $349 (when available in March.). If it would sound better or be "safer" I would pay that. I'm not in a hurry. I dont want to pay for a gadget to fix it either.

Anyone else see this?

 

[dlaloum]

Hi, this worries me as I also will use only external amps. I havent heard anyone else say this, so dont know why you had it. I am trying to decide b/w the Onkyo and the Denon 3800. The onkyo is $100 cheaper plus Dirac full will be $349 (when available in March.). If it would sound better or be "safer" I would pay that. I'm not in a hurry. I dont want to pay for a gadget to fix it either.

Anyone else see this?

Ground loops are very very unpredictable... they can be triggered by differing circuit setups in your power lines, they cand be triggered by different setups between different components.

Yes I (and many others) use external amps, and have not encountered ground loop issues... but in the past, the same gear plugged into different wall plugs would either hum or not hum ... these are very annoying issues to resolve.

No point seeking out solutions, when the problem is one that is relatively unlikely to crop up.

Basic steps to avoid ground loops - make sure all components are powered (and earthed?) from the same point

If there is an earth/ground - make sure all components that are earthed, go to the same earth/ground point

Beyond that things start to get more complicated - suggest googling ground loops... there's lots of stuff on the topic

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Hi, this worries me as I also will use only external amps. I havent heard anyone else say this, so dont know why you had it. I am trying to decide b/w the Onkyo and the Denon 3800. The onkyo is $100 cheaper plus Dirac full will be $349 (when available in March.). If it would sound better or be "safer" I would pay that. I'm not in a hurry. I dont want to pay for a gadget to fix it either.

Anyone else see this?

If you google "HDMI Ground Loop", you'll see that this is a common problem that can present itself regardless of which AVR brand you choose. Most of the people posting in threads I found on Reddit, DIY Audio and AVS were using Denon receivers. It's worth noting that I have three other HDMI sources and none of them were causing the ground loop, it was just the PC, but once the problem hit the receiver, it affected all HDMI inputs.

Are you planning on using a PC with your setup? PC over HDMI + External Amps seems to be the conditions where this issue may crop up.

 

[dlaloum]

If you google "HDMI Ground Loop", you'll see that this is a common problem that can present itself regardless of which AVR brand you choose. Most of the people posting in threads I found on Reddit, DIY Audio and AVS were using Denon receivers. It's worth noting that I have three other HDMI sources and none of them were causing the ground loop, it was just the PC, but once the problem hit the receiver, it affected all HDMI inputs.

Are you planning on using a PC with your setup? PC over HDMI + External Amps seems to be the conditions where this issue may crop up.

Definitely not limited to HDMI... balanced connections are substantially more resistant to ground loops - my previous ground loop issues in days gone by were always linked to standard unbalanced RCA connections....

I have yet to encounter a HDMI associated ground loop ...

 

[crazyunclejeff]

yes I have an HTPC but am trying to phase it out. I hear what you say about any unit may develop this glitch.

As to Denon vs Onkyo, I may try to tough it out a month until more is known about Denon and Dirac before I decide to purchase, It seems it will have "full bandwidth for $349" or the "limited bandwidth for $249" .

Does the Onkyo have the Limited or full bandwidth in its included Dirac?

I know neither do full bass EQ

 

[Dougey_Jones]

yes I have an HTPC but am trying to phase it out. I hear what you say about any unit may develop this glitch.

As to Denon vs Onkyo, I may try to tough it out a month until more is known about Denon and Dirac before I decide to purchase, It seems it will have "full bandwidth for $349" or the "limited bandwidth for $249" .

Does the Onkyo have the Limited or full bandwidth in its included Dirac?

I know neither do full bass EQ

RZ50 is 20hz-20khz, so full.

 

[Rottmannash]

RZ50 is 20hz-20khz, so full.

I didn't know DL had a "limited bandwidth" version.

 

[crazyunclejeff]

If it has full, that leans me back to Onkyo not Denon.

I got the "limited/full" info on the Denon site telling the rollout dates in March and costs for Dirac.

The Dirac site says the Limited does only frequencies below 500Hz

thanks