Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)

[dlaloum]

Agreed. In this case, the speakers are rated at 86db, which is probably their 1khz efficiency rating, and I'm sure they dip much lower at lower frequencies. If his speakers are anything like my Kef R series that dip down to about 80db efficiency and 3.2ohm at their worst point, they will require a beefy amp.

People tend to assume that the issue is with the woofer and bass...

With the Bass, lack of power tends to make itself heard as an absence more than anything else... sin of omission.

With speakers like electrostatics or my Gallo's with the CDT tweeter, the low impedance point is on the tweeter... and is much lower than typical low impedance woofers... (ML ESL9 = 0.8 ohm, Gallo Ref 3.2 = 1.6 ohm) - When an amp hits constraints on these, it manifests (depending on the amp) as a screechy distorted high end (at higher volumes... the obvious "clipping" sound) - but less obviously at moderate and low volumes, it can manifest as a lack of transparency, a veiled sound, details tend to be lost in the mix, soundstage and imaging are soft or absent....

I feel like the 3.4 manages OK with dips down to 3 ohm (the Gallo woofer dips down to that level too...) - an issue that is not necessarily such a big deal when one has sub's too (!) - but deals badly with the 1.6 ohm in the high end.

 

[peng]

People tend to assume that the issue is with the woofer and bass...

For good reason though, all else being equal, as you know woofers tend to draw much higher current than tweeters do when playing music, How much current can the tweeter of the ML ESL9 you mentioned take before it gets damaged? I am just curious..

 

[dlaloum]

For good reason though, all else being equal, as you know woofers tend to draw much higher current than tweeters do when playing music, How much current can the tweeter of the ML ESL9 you mentioned take before it gets damaged? I am just curious..

No idea - the tweeter is the main electrostatic panel - and they are usually run with fairly powerful amps... early ESL's would ark if given too much Voltage - current models tend to have good protection circuits!

 

[CJ4life]

Just from reading this over, seems like this would actually make a pretty decent pre-amp if using external amplification, no? Especially if you factor in Dirac as the room correction software. Thoughts?

 

[dlaloum]

Just from reading this over, seems like this would actually make a pretty decent pre-amp if using external amplification, no? Especially if you factor in Dirac as the room correction software. Thoughts?

That's mostly how I use its cousin, the integra drx3.4.

It runs only surround, with external amps for L/C/R .

Very happy with the results.

 

[Shazb0t]

Just from reading this over, seems like this would actually make a pretty decent pre-amp if using external amplification, no? Especially if you factor in Dirac as the room correction software. Thoughts?

Yes, it would.

 

[dlaloum]

@amirm, in the RZ50 measurements, how did you control HDMI input level? - you noted improved performance with HDMI in set to 90 (%?)

Was this a setting on the AVR, or a setting on the source feeding the audio stream to the AVR over HDMI?

Where was the volume being set to 90? - and where was the level varying to achieve the measurement requirements?

thank you (just looking to optimise my Integra DRX 3.4 )

 

[dlaloum]

Just a quick note - Dirac have just released an update to the Dirac Live desktop software - new way of editting the target curve, and I believe the new auto-curve function...

 

[Flak]

Just a quick note - Dirac have just released an update to the Dirac Live desktop software - new way of editting the target curve, and I believe the new auto-curve function...

Yes

b.t.w. it's easy to convert the target curve to one with control points by right-clicking it or by using the small icons in the upper right corner

 

[Dougey_Jones]

This may be a dumb question, but, is the RZ50 compatible with this latest iteration of Dirac? Or is it a static piece of baked in software where you’re stuck with the release you got?

 

[Flak]

This may be a dumb question, but, is the RZ50 compatible with this latest iteration of Dirac? Or is it a static piece of baked in software where you’re stuck with the release you got?

It's compatible with the latest iteration

 

[tjcinnamon]

Wish Onkyo would give an announcement on the RZ70 and 90… hoping they are not vapor ware

Also, what is the max sample rate Dirac outputs?

 

[tjcinnamon]

That's mostly how I use its cousin, the integra drx3.4.

It runs only surround, with external amps for L/C/R .

Very happy with the results.

Is it possible to rematrix the outputs? For example, use the internal amp for surrounds and then externally amp my LCR? I have 11 channels, so a 9channel AVR amp on surround duty would be perfect.

Also, does the integra allow adjusting the trims after Dirac? The pioneer doesn’t, I think the Onkyo does, but not sure on the integra.

 

[voodooless]

Also, what is the max sample rate Dirac outputs?

On AVR’s usually processing is done at 48 kHz. Some higher end models might use 96 kHz.

 

[dlaloum]

Is it possible to rematrix the outputs? For example, use the internal amp for surrounds and then externally amp my LCR? I have 11 channels, so a 9channel AVR amp on surround duty would be perfect.

Also, does the integra allow adjusting the trims after Dirac? The pioneer doesn’t, I think the Onkyo does, but not sure on the integra.

I don't think so the amps are permanently attached to specific channels - there are only 9 channels processed on the 3.4.... so there is no real way of extracting the additional 2 channels of information - without substantial complexity which does not seem to me to be viable (or financially sensible)

If you really need 11 channels - you should get an 11 channel AVR (RZ50, LX505, 5.4)

for my purposes 9 channels is more than I use!

 

[dlaloum]

Also, what is the max sample rate Dirac outputs?

All the Onkyo family current models are @ 48khz it seems (from measurements)

 

[SDMatt]

Look who arrived at their new forever home! For the record: Paid for on 1/7/2022; Delivered 4/18/2022. Let the fun begin...

 

[Svet]

Time passes and almost nothing changes... I mean, there is so many excellent dacs & amps around, why can't these "big" brands just simply put an equivalent of something like a Loxjie D40 quality and work on the amplifier section to attain a fantastic quality? is this unatainable in 2022...?

 

[dlaloum]

Time passes and almost nothing changes... I mean, there is so many excellent dacs & amps around, why can't these "big" brands just simply put an equivalent of something like a Loxjie D40 quality and work on the amplifier section to attain a fantastic quality? is this unatainable in 2022...?

I think the issue is, if you add up all the individual bits that make up an AVR, you typically get a price that is substantially higher....

The Loxjie is a 2 channel DAC - you would need between 4 and 6 of them for an AVR
Then you need the equivalent number of power amps
Then you need at least 8 channels of ADC (so you could price 4 x stereo ADC's)
Finally you need a good DSP to decode and process those inputs

It is not unachievable - but achieving it at a price most of us are willing to pay, is a challenge.

The High end receivers of the 80's and 90's only needed to provide stereo!

In terms of value we are doing very well indeed....

In terms of performance, it seems to me to be not unreasonable to ask better, especially from the high end flagship models... The JBL Synthesis, Trinnov, Storm level models....

We can hope for something close to that from a model like the RZ50.... while we expect more from the upcoming RZ70 flagship...

 

[chris719]

Time passes and almost nothing changes... I mean, there is so many excellent dacs & amps around, why can't these "big" brands just simply put an equivalent of something like a Loxjie D40 quality and work on the amplifier section to attain a fantastic quality? is this unatainable in 2022...?

Completely agree with above post. The other thing to note is that a lot of their development time/budget is probably spent on software/firmware and high speed design for the video path. These Chinese DACs and amps have very little software, usually just an MCU. It's a far cry from the amount of work required to add all the features of a modern AVR. If it were easy, we'd see a Loxjie or similar AVR, but it's actually a lot of work, so they stick to simple designs.

I do think the AVR mfgs should improve their quality in many areas, but the profit margins are probably already low.