30W is a fine number...if all I'm playing is stereo. Most of us buy AVRs for home theater, which implies we like sounds from most of our speakers. I also enjoy MCH surround music like DVD-A, SACD, BD-A, and streaming Atmos music from the Apple Music app on AT4K. How far do you think 30W would go on my Martin Logans?
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Onkyo TX-RZ30 AV Receiver Review
- Thread starter amirm
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It is crowded space, and Onkyo does have opportunity to fix it with the next generation. At this point I see only pitty that some folks would be happy with 30W output. That is worse that tubes that many of us dislike because of this and many other reasons. Saving the day with Onkyo as preamp is pretty much the same as going Denon. So nothing is really saved, you are still stuck in this Onkyo world that is so much more inconvenient that Denon. D&M have gotten their act straight and they do own this space. Not much innovation with 3900H line, but I guess they just ran out of good ideas.
It kinda matters where the speaker drops to 4 ohms or below. If it's below the crossover point, then that responsibility has been handed off to the powered SW.
No one is telling you to flip the switch to "4 ohm mode". The issue is that these AVRs are creating an "unintended 4 ohm mode" when challenged and there is no notice. It stays in this mode for eternity until the plug is pulled. You may own less challenging speakers so it's strictly YMMV when it comes to the SQ in your room. If you read Amir's reviews, he has never done his benchmark tests in 4 ohm mode (to my knowledge) and the default setting of the RZ30 is "6 ohms or above".
Whether Onkyo desired it or not, they have really become the "value" play in the AVR world and Denons are "premium". Again, there's nothing wrong with either since it's like choosing between Honda and Acura.
Many AVRs from the 2000s on do not support 4 ohm speakers at the power ratings. They either say nothing below 6 ohms otherwise void the warranty, or there is a limiter mode that can set that the speaker is under 6 ohms. Onkyo and Pioneer particularly once it goes into its protect mode will never get out of it without pulling the plug for a time to reset, but it gonna do the limiting shortly or immediately after.
I would suggest that the testing for an AVR specify if the amplifier supports 4 ohm speakers and if so, at full power without limiting. Another option is to test with 8 ohm and 4 ohm to see if it makes a difference.
It also can have a separeate evaluation, 2 channel and multi-channel. I do like that however testing of the Pre-Outs is done because I think many will want to use the AVR as a preamp only with 2 channel, and then the rest of the amps for HT.
These would be tweeks however, I think the majority of ASR users can understand the reviews as is.
I would suggest that the testing for an AVR specify if the amplifier supports 4 ohm speakers and if so, at full power without limiting. Another option is to test with 8 ohm and 4 ohm to see if it makes a difference.
It also can have a separeate evaluation, 2 channel and multi-channel. I do like that however testing of the Pre-Outs is done because I think many will want to use the AVR as a preamp only with 2 channel, and then the rest of the amps for HT.
These would be tweeks however, I think the majority of ASR users can understand the reviews as is.
Not really sure how Onkyo got there. I would not touch it as AVR or AVP, but then I can understand that lots of people might have different level of tolerance. If stupidity in design is the consideration in choosing the AVR/AVP, than Onkyo gets 10/10. And they will never run ART, so another thing to think off.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #87
As noted and I explained earlier, there is no reason to use 4 ohm mode. As such all of my AVR testing is done in that 6 ohm mode.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #88
Yes they do. Vast majority of speakers ate 4 ohm or lower yet there no reports of them malfunctioning. They run perfectly fine in my tests as you even see here.
Not necessarily stupidity in design. There are some folks quite adept at gamesmanship and Onkyo is no exception: the FTC only mandates power ratings for 8 ohms. If they ever revised it to include 4-ohm ratings, this is where the PAC AVRs would get into trouble. They are technically not lying and the consumer has to do their part to be informed for their specific situation at home.
That is the beauty of the reviews here: it separates a robust design from a "eh, good enough" design!
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If not stupid, which is a blunt and uncunny word, then what they were thinking? Based on your response, the next word would be "deception", which could be actually more worrying that just "stupid". I can be very stupid at times, but not really ever trying to pull deception game.
Gamesmanship: the art or practice of winning games by questionable expedients without actually violating the rules.
Definition of GAMESMANSHIP
the art or practice of winning games by questionable expedients without actually violating the rules; the use of ethically dubious methods to gain an objective… See the full definition
The fact that Onkyo never promised you a power output into 4-ohms means it's not possible for them to "lie" to you.
Perhaps we are jaded by expectations but I truly believe you should pay more for competence.
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Well, that's how you build a brand. On competence. Not sure why you do need to go that far to defend them. It is just a miserable failure and at least on my part will stay associated with their brand.Gamesmanship: the art or practice of winning games by questionable expedients without actually violating the rules.
Definition of GAMESMANSHIP
the art or practice of winning games by questionable expedients without actually violating the rules; the use of ethically dubious methods to gain an objective… See the full definitionwww.merriam-webster.com
The fact that Onkyo never promised you a power output into 4-ohms means it's not possible for them to "lie" to you.
Perhaps we are jaded by expectations but I truly believe you should pay more for competence.
Trust me when I say I'm not trying very hard to defend them. I've been called many things by Onkyo apologists and still trying to keep my cool despite that!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #95
I have to think just like Dieselgate, this is to pass some kind of regulatory test. It would be trivial to pass the test if you cut down the power to a quarter. This would explain why they are not responding to this, or removing the restriction.
NanoGuidingStar
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If I remember correctly, the RZ30 initially had a misprint in the product specifications and manual, stating that all HDMI IN ports supported 40Gbps bandwidth. This led people to believe that the RZ30 used the updated HDMI board from the RZ50. However, it was later confirmed that the RZ30 only had about half of its ports at 40Gbps, while the other half were 20 (or 24?) Gbps. In other words, just like the RZ50, the official documentation was corrected last year to reflect this. If I’m not mistaken, this issue was discussed on AVSForum around October of last year.
Frankly speaking, I think this had quite a significant impact. If it were me, I would definitely demand a full refund because of it... Since this cannot be resolved through a firmware/software update and requires a hardware replacement, I believe Onkyo will not provide free HDMI board replacements for every RZ30 user.
Interestingly, you can still find the old manual on Onkyo’s website.
Old Manual
Updated Manual (September 2025 Revision)
Frankly speaking, I think this had quite a significant impact. If it were me, I would definitely demand a full refund because of it... Since this cannot be resolved through a firmware/software update and requires a hardware replacement, I believe Onkyo will not provide free HDMI board replacements for every RZ30 user.
Interestingly, you can still find the old manual on Onkyo’s website.
Old Manual
Updated Manual (September 2025 Revision)
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If you just want an av processor or even just want your fronts on an external amp, it seems like a perfectly fine unit. You're not going to hit the power limiting running some small surround speakers.
I have no problem with this unit for the price. What's better for the price to use like that?
I have no problem with this unit for the price. What's better for the price to use like that?
A manual is a legal document so this goes beyond gamesmanship!
Alice of Old Vincennes
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I notice independent sub outputs provide cleaner bass in my situation. Anthem 520 died and replaced with this model. I was receiving complaints from wife and son at night at low volumes. Eventually, I just turned off the subs. No complaints from upstairs bedrooms even at moderate volume. 520 was calibrated. Have not yet calibrated the 30. Subs are placed behind and next to mains. For some reason, aren’t traveling up and through the walls now. Using Rythmik LV 12 and Infinity R 12. Wife and son suffer from misophonia.
I've got one of those as well. When she's out I can turn off the "reduce dynamic range" setting.
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